Originally posted by CosmicComet
Leave it to Carver to respond with the exact thing that I already anticipated and pre-addressed, right before he even says it.Why don't you actually address what I said there? It's directed towards you in particular, since its easy anticipate that you hardly read and are often slow on the uptake.
Answer my counter-claims in my description of the feat, Carver, or forever shut your mouth on it. You always dip and dodge around it when I press you on that feat.
Originally posted by carver9
I already answered it. He was amped to an unknown degree with a sun that gave him new powers. The ft doesn't belong to the character, at all, no matter if I or you guessed how much he was amped during that scene. I could say he was amped a billions times over and you have nothing to prove me wrong.
Yeaph Carver didn't read or if he did, he didn't understand 👆
Originally posted by carver9I already did. He explained it in the scan before. He gains mass as he gains speed. Mass is directly related to density.
Sigh. Real world logic again. Anyways, Flash fist was bleeding when he punched Prime. I need you to provide proof on this mass deal.
"Physics 101, the faster an object movies, the more mass it obtains."
The "infinite mass punch" is actually also him just describing what it's like when he punches at near-light-speed, just the same as that particular punch.
In those scans he also says,
"Relativistic effects take over as a body approaches light speed, visual imput will blue-shift and my body's mass with increase towards infinity.
"Maybe he is as tough as Superman, but packing the mass I mentioned. I'm sure he'll feel that."
Originally posted by SurturIt's a bit more complicated. Superman has many comparable feats to Flash. But Superman can't do some things Flash can do inside of Earths atmosphere. He can't completely avoid the relativistic effects of gaining mass as Flash does. He has no speedforce. He would cause a cosmic event on Earth and strip the atmosphere and all life from it.
That sounds like a really half assed explanation. Can Superman evacuate a city of half a million people in less then a second?
That said, he has outspeeded, stopped, and outperformed Flash enough when it actually matters to let us know the gap isn't big if there is one.
The answer is yes, Superman can.
To quote myself:
Flash is moving at such an insane speed that it looks like he’s actually warping reality – he recreates the town Superman is in to look like Krypton, not only the costumations, but entire buildings and landscapes (imagine that besides building all of those – he actually has to get all the materials from other locations around the world).
Superman tracks him down and proceeds to match his speed and catch him.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supermanbarrywarping2.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supermanbarrywarping3.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supermanbarrywarping4.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supermanbarrywarping5.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supermanbarrywarping6.jpg
“Always wondered..which of us…was fastest.” (note that this takes place after Flash Rebirth; also note that he says fastest not faster which denotes the fact that Superman considers that they are the two fastest heroes by default).
After stopping at a coffee shop, they have a lengthy conversation for pages in which they even use flashbacks while seemingly time stops around them with Superman again matching Flash’s level of perception/speed.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop1.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop2.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop3.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop4.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop5.jpg
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/supesbarrytimestop6.jpg
What is Flash’s level of perception and speed – well, it’s good you asked because in the same issue, he makes it quite clear.
http://i1093.photobucket.com/albums/i436/KMCPhilosophia/FlashPerception.jpg
“I can perceive events that last for less than an attosecond”
Two things to clear up.
In case some of you interpret that “speed up my senses” scan as Superman needing to activate his superspeed, here’s what the writer of this issue had to say, while also confirming Superman’s attosecond-level perception.
It's a fair question, to be sure. I wasn't thinking of Superman "activating" his superspeed perceptions, like it was a light switch that could be turned on and off, so much as it was shifting his perceptions to bring superspeed events and sounds into focus. Like the human eye looking at something small and close up and then adjusting when the viewer looks at something large and far away, I think Superman is perceiving all of these things, ALL of the time, and it's just a question of what he chooses to focus on. But I think Superman is also capable of focusing on macro-scale, "normal" speed events at a rate something similar to that in the typical human range, so that he wouldn't spend a subjective eternity between each word in every sentence that Lois says to him. Similarly, he can chose to perceive visual information much like we do, or he can expand his perceptions and see far into the electromagnetic spectrum, or narrow his focus far enough to see individual atoms. But just like he doesn't see Lois as merely a cloud of electrons, neutrons, and protons, he doesn't perceive every second as composed of a huge number of attosecond-scale events--unless he wants to, of course.But that's just one fan's opinion, too!
Best,
Chris Roberson
Originally posted by Juntai
I already did. He explained it in the scan before. He gains mass as he gains speed. Mass is directly related to density."Physics 101, the faster an object movies, the more mass it obtains."
The "infinite mass punch" is actually also him just describing what it's like when he punches at near-light-speed, just the same as that particular punch.
In those scans he also says,
"Relativistic effects take over as a body approaches light speed, visual imput will blue-shift and my [b]body's mass
with increase towards infinity."Maybe he is as tough as Superman, but packing the mass I mentioned. I'm sure he'll feel that." [/B]
👆
This isn't Johnny Storm, who is a known braggart, talking about his Nova Flame burning hotter than the Sun, or something.
Nor is it Wolverine, using his 'best at what I do' as a way of intimidating people.
Nor even is it Superman, talking about how every opponent he faces is the toughest he has ever faced.
It's Barry, a police forensic scientist (so familiar with scientific concepts), who isn't given to boasting or lying.
Flash FACT. Not Flash Opinion, or Flash Guesstimate.
Originally posted by CosmicComet
Yes, absolutely, since he has feats that suggest he can do so or better.-His speed has helped him move around under a time suspension. So potent that it was described that even a fraction of a nanosecond would feel like an eternity.
-He has been sealed by New God Time Stop Technology, and simply broke out of it quite casually. Meaning he can think, react, and move, even while zero time is passing. That gives him all the time in the world.
Barring those, he actually has city-scale speed feats that are at least equal, if not vastly superior to Wally's nuked city evac feat:
-He repaired a ruined Metropolis in a couple of seconds. A NYC sized city in seconds. This is a far more complicated feat than evacuating a city.
Granted, he was under a blue sun, but the amp it gave his physical stats was small or non-existent, since no point was made about a great change to his abilities once he had been exposed, and his confrontations in the story did not imply any change over the status quo for him. All it provably did was give him an extra vision power.
If someone were to try to write off the feat as an amped one, they'd have to prove that the physical amp was great enough to drastically change the time it would take for him to do it normally. The feat took maybe 5 seconds. If someone were to say it would have taken him 1 hour (for example) to do it under yellow sun exposure, then they'd be saying that the blue sun amped his stats by a factor of 720, of which they'd have an impossible time proving as no change of that magnitude was implied or stated by his other showings. If they were to try to claim it would have taken him even longer to do than that under a yellow sun; lets say entire months, then they'd be saying his stats were amped by a factor of [b]Milllions
--of which of course would be a claim even more impossible and thin to support.-Regardless, he has another insta City repairing feat, and while weakened too. He repaired an alien city after it had been wrecked by a meteor shower, and he did this just after having crashed into kryptonite-laden meteor that hurt him.
-Best of all probably, he showed he was fast enough close the gap on and grab Barry in the Grounded Arc, and that was while Barry was performing a feat that shits on Wally's evacuation feat.
Barry was transforming a city with his bare hands to resemble various eras of Krypton. From Prehistoric, to Iron-Age, all the way up to Modern day, complete with huge skyscrapers and winding-mid-air streets, all in quick succession. Meaning he was sewing costumes for every pedestrian, building memorabilia and props appropriate of each time period, carving, sculpting, landscaping, designing and building around an entire city to resemble something completely different, and he was changing it all around rapid fire one era after another. And Superman was not only fast enough to readily see Barry, but also fast enough to follow his movements, and even close the distance on a straightaway and grab him.
Barry's feat there was easily superior to Wally's. Easily. And Superman still matched Barry's speed in that particular scene. [/B]
To add to the last one, after Supes captured Barry and released him from the mind-altering device, Barry asked Supes for his help in undoing what he did to the city and people. If Barry was significantly faster than Supes, then he wouldn't have asked for his help in undoing the alterations, seeing as splitting the work with a guy you are significantly faster than means you are just making the work longer for yourself if you could do it faster alone.
-Oh, and one more huge one. Barry and Wally had to go faster than they had ever gone before in order to breach into Darkseid's multiversal singularity. Faster, than they had ever gone before. The Flashes had zeptosecond feats prior to this, and they had to go faster than they had ever gone before to reach Darkseid.
Not only did Superman have zero trouble following their movement as they passed by him (being able to easily identify Barry Allen). He later entered the same singularity all on his own sheer speed later.
What's important here is that several Green Lanterns absolutely failed to enter. No matter how fast they were going, the GLs could not penetrate through and were basically stuck in an endless time-loop.
Superman's speed was such that he entered alone easily and completely no sold any time-warping effects.
Considering how fast Green Lanterns are themselves (massively FTL with a bunch of zeros), this is huge that only Barry, Wally, and Superman had the necessary speed to enter.
The difference between the Flashes and Superman are percentages. Not multiples. Not orders upon orders of magnitude.
I just want to put this here, before people continue trolling:
Plot Induced Stupidity, or PIS, is when characters don't use their abilities or skills to the fullest extent as shown before, even within their personality ranges, for the sake of the story plotline. It makes lesser powered characters an actual challenge against higher powered characters in the comics. Examples of PIS include Flash stories lasting longer than three panels, or Toy Man as a threat to Superman.
Note the underlined. If you guys say Konvikt, Damage, Titus etc have LESSER speed than Flash, then them tagging Flash are examples of PIS, and under forum rules are inadmissible.
If you say they are FASTER than Flash, then you need to show Hulk is also FASTER than Flash in order for your point to be made.
And:
A character like the Flash is not going to get hit by someone substantially slower than him unless they have some counter to his powers. Simple as that.
Continue. But know that continuing along this route is going against the rules.
