Originally posted by Juntai
They explain that away in that Superman has to focus to do that. Being able to hear and see and smell almost everything on the planet, he has to tune in to desired things. Superman can see, and hear and keep up with Flash just fine when he wants to.
That sounds like a really half assed explanation. Can Superman evacuate a city of half a million people in less then a second?
Originally posted by Juntai
Faster > greater mass. At lightspeed their mass is increases exponentially. This isn't just applied to his strikes, his body is essentially a lightspeed bullet with the weight of a star. Its the way they explain the speedsters to take hits from heavy hitters. e.g; Flash trading evenly vs Superboy Prime, or Jay trading evenly with Teth Adam, etc. Flash gained that mass and hit with it, but Zoom carried a good amount of mass also.
Sigh. Real world logic again. Anyways, Flash fist was bleeding when he punched Prime. I need you to provide proof on this mass deal.
Real world logic according to ilogical posters, does not make any sense.
Because comics are not even remotely based on our world.
Cars in comics do not weight as much as cars in rl, planets in comics are much much less durable than in rl
So for anyone trying to debate following debating rules and fallacies is a waste of time as they are based in logical conclusion based on true or false premises.
So if the premise says that hulk can lift a car but carvermathincs logic says real life does not apply then it means that a car lifted by hulk in the marvel universe weights only 20 pounds, if batman lifts 100 lbs in the dc universe and 100 lbs in dc is the equivalent of 50 lbs in the real world. The logical conclusion is that batman is stronger than Hulk.
God I love carvermathics 👆
Also flash didn't imp prime fyi
Originally posted by Surtur
That sounds like a really half assed explanation. Can Superman evacuate a city of half a million people in less then a second?
Yes, absolutely, since he has feats that suggest he can do so or better.
-His speed has helped him move around under a time suspension. So potent that it was described that even a fraction of a nanosecond would feel like an eternity.
-He has been sealed by New God Time Stop Technology, and simply broke out of it quite casually. Meaning he can think, react, and move, even while zero time is passing. That gives him all the time in the world.
Barring those, he actually has city-scale speed feats that are at least equal, if not vastly superior to Wally's nuked city evac feat:
-He repaired a ruined Metropolis in a couple of seconds. A NYC sized city in seconds. This is a far more complicated feat than evacuating a city.
Granted, he was under a blue sun, but the amp it gave his physical stats was small or non-existent, since no point was made about a great change to his abilities once he had been exposed, and his confrontations in the story did not imply any change over the status quo for him. All it provably did was give him an extra vision power.
If someone were to try to write off the feat as an amped one, they'd have to prove that the physical amp was great enough to drastically change the time it would take for him to do it normally. The feat took maybe 5 seconds. If someone were to say it would have taken him 1 hour (for example) to do it under yellow sun exposure, then they'd be saying that the blue sun amped his stats by a factor of 720, of which they'd have an impossible time proving as no change of that magnitude was implied or stated by his other showings. If they were to try to claim it would have taken him even longer to do than that under a yellow sun; lets say entire months, then they'd be saying his stats were amped by a factor of Milllions--of which of course would be a claim even more impossible and thin to support.
-Regardless, he has another insta City repairing feat, and while weakened too. He repaired an alien city after it had been wrecked by a meteor shower, and he did this just after having crashed into kryptonite-laden meteor that hurt him.
-Best of all probably, he showed he was fast enough close the gap on and grab Barry in the Grounded Arc, and that was while Barry was performing a feat that shits on Wally's evacuation feat.
Barry was transforming a city with his bare hands to resemble various eras of Krypton. From Prehistoric, to Iron-Age, all the way up to Modern day, complete with huge skyscrapers and winding-mid-air streets, all in quick succession. Meaning he was sewing costumes for every pedestrian, building memorabilia and props appropriate of each time period, carving, sculpting, landscaping, designing and building around an entire city to resemble something completely different, and he was changing it all around rapid fire one era after another. And Superman was not only fast enough to readily see Barry, but also fast enough to follow his movements, and even close the distance on a straightaway and grab him.
Barry's feat there was easily superior to Wally's. Easily. And Superman still matched Barry's speed in that particular scene.
Leave it to Carver to respond with the exact thing that I already anticipated and pre-addressed, right before he even says it.
Why don't you actually address what I said there? It's directed towards you in particular, since its easy anticipate that you hardly read and are often slow on the uptake.
Answer my counter-claims in my description of the feat, Carver, or forever shut your mouth on it. You always dip and dodge around it when I press you on that feat.
Originally posted by carver9
I already answered it. He was amped to an unknown degree with a sun that gave him new powers. The ft doesn't belong to the character, at all, no matter if I or you guessed how much he was amped during that scene. I could say he was amped a billions times over and you have nothing to prove me wrong.
You didn't answer shit.
How many multiples was he physically amped Carver? 2x? 4x? Hundreds of times? Millions?
Answer the question, clearly. And then present your case for why you think so.
Your position is clearly that he was amped by a highly significant factor, such that you don't think his speed remotely resembles that at all, but you are too cowardly to put a number behind it because you know you would utterly fail at proving your case. The bigger the number you think of, the more burden of proof there is. Tall claims requiring tall evidence, afterall.
My position on the other hand? Is simple and readily stated; there was no physical amp, or a very moderate one at best. Why? Because the comic never implied or stated a great one. His interactions with Bizzaro (who was already exposed to the Blue Star before Supes was) never showed anything different to what we would usually expect nor did he say he felt any noticeable physical difference over the usual after he had the exposure. We know exactly one thing that the blue sun exposure did for him and Bizzaro, and that was give them a single new vision power. That's it.
You have nothing on your side. I have Occam's Razor at least for my position. Thus my position is much stronger than yours.
You can't shove a feat off with mindless speculation with no inkling of support, because that raises a huge slippery slope for discussion. One where we can raise a question mark for damn near anything;
"I dunno, maybe so and so was just recovering from an illness when they lost that fight. I wouldn't count it just to be safe." That's what you are doing, that's what you are allowing.
I don't think he used nothing but speed to build the city since he had other abilities we are unknown of. I don't have to apply numbers to a ft that doesn't belong to an amped character. I'm sure you can find other fts to use instead of providing misleading evidence.
http://s27.photobucket.com/user/mars_central/media/superheroes/bluesun.jpg.html
That is all I need but I can provide more evidence. Superman himself brings it up again and even tells us about the power gain to CREATE.
Find another ft bro.
Originally posted by carver9
I don't think he used nothing but speed to build the city since he had other abilities we are unknown of.
I don't care what the you think. You don't think very well. What can you prove?
The pictures only showed him zipping around the city in a blur and thus he only used Super speed. Occam's Razor applied again. You have nothing to combat this.
He had no other abilities from the Blue Sun. Him and Bizzaro gained exactly one ability, and that was Bizzaro Vision and Superman Vision.
That is the only ability Superman talked about, and the only ability shown.
Occam's Razor wins again.
Your mindless speculation allows us to cast doubt on any feat you use in the future, using the exact same train of thought you are using.
I don't have to apply numbers to a ft that doesn't belong to an amped character. I'm sure you can find other fts to use instead of providing misleading evidence.
Yes. You do.
My argument says that its a slight amp at best, and thus still usable as a feat as the magnitude won't change. The comic supports me on that by Superman never implying that he got anything other than a new power.
You even see him temporarily being jumped on by Bizzaro citizens and he didn't no sell their strength.
Your argument is that it was a high enough amp to not represent his speed at all, but you have absolutely no evidence to support it.
http://s27.photobucket.com/user/mars_central/media/superheroes/bluesun.jpg.htmlThat is all I need but I can provide more evidence. Superman himself brings it up again and even tells us about the power gain to CREATE.
Find another ft bro.
Thanks for saving me the time of posting those myself.
As you can see, Superman got no amp at all, or a relatively small one. He got a new super vision power, just as he said Bizarro got.
Bizzaro was exposed to the blue sun before Superman was, and Superman noted absolutely no physical difference in Bizzaro when he first saw him. All he noticed was that Bizzaro had gotten a new power. A single one at that.
Jor-El's program speculated that he might get new ones plural, but that's all it was, a 'maybe'.
Superman found out about one new power from the exposure, and it was by accident. So saying he used multiple unknown ones repairing the city when he only found out a single one by accident just moments before, is hilarious speculation.
Occam's Razor, as I said before, takes care of that speculation.
My position, once again, Carver, is that Supes' physical stats were increased by a few percentages at best, since we know Bizzaro got no noted amp from it, and thus Superman should not. And the fact that Supes himself states no difference in his physical ability once he got exposed. He only noted the super-vision power up.
TL;DR, Bizzaro was not amped by the blue sun, as he was exposed to the blue sun before Superman was and Superman never noted any physical increase in Bizzaro, only a new vision power which turns people into Bizzaros. Likewise Superman got a new vision that gives people Superman powers.
No amps, only vision powers on both sides. That's it.
Originally posted by carver9
Zoom durability has always been his hindrance. Again, make a thread if you think otherwise. Now apply real world logic to that scene that you're describing as White dwarf punch.
Originally posted by carver9
Sigh. Real world logic again. Anyways, Flash fist was bleeding when he punched Prime. I need you to provide proof on this mass deal.
Anyways, as DarkSaint already proved, the white dwarf star punch is valid BOTH according to comic and real world logic.
