Simple: I got the idea from watching Star's video about how to explode an atheists head. In it they put forth some kind of stupid shit like how you can't get something from nothing. So for example they would say if you think a specific particle/element/whatever is responsible for the Big Bang..they'd go "well yeah but WHERE or WHO did that particle come from?" and on and on.
So I just thought I'd flip it over. Since they apparently believe whatever shaped the universe must of come from someone, I'm curious where they feel that someone came from.
Originally posted by Surtur
So I just thought I'd flip it over.
However; God, as defined in contemporary philosophy, is atemporal—he exists independently/outside of time—which means that there was no point in time when he began to exist. So the KCA doesn't apply to him.
But that is the thing. If someone is willing to say a godlike being always existed, then why couldn't..whatever energies formed the universe of always existed? It doesn't mean I'm saying the universe always has, but perhaps the building blocks have.
So why can religious people go "oh all this had to come from somewhere, from someone" and at the same time be going "God came from nowhere, he has always been".
What am I kidding? I already know the answer people will give: because magic. I apologize, I tried to bring logic into something totally illogical. I imagine this is what a conversation with Bizarro feels like.
First there was an endless primordial ocean, Nun. Then Atum-Ra created themselves as a shining egg, and Atum-Ra then mated with himself and gave birth to Shu and Tefnut, who brought forth Geb and Nut, who in turn gave birth to the rest of the gods- Osiris, Isis, Set, Nepthys, etc..
Everyone knows that!
Originally posted by Surtur
But that is the thing. If someone is willing to say a godlike being always existed, then why couldn't..whatever energies formed the universe of always existed? It doesn't mean I'm saying the universe always has, but perhaps the building blocks have.
Originally posted by Surtur
So why can religious people go "oh all this had to come from somewhere, from someone" and at the same time be going "God came from nowhere, he has always been".
God on the other hand has never been thought of this way; and according to contemporary philosophy God created space-time, i.e. time didn't exist prior to him. Therefore there couldn't have been a time when God came into being.
But you see the problem is some religious people take a lack of explanation for "it's magic yo". They will say something can't come from nothing, that everything has to of had a source. But of course not God, because he's magic.
So they can harp on people about the big bang, say "der where did the energy that started it come from if you can't get something from nothing?". Which means God came from something too, but nah cuz he's magic it doesn't work that way.
Asking this question is like asking "Where did Matter come from?"
There is no definite answer. Even atheists/scientists cannot answer this type of question.
"How can something be created without a creator?" The classic chicken/egg argument. But we all know the chicken made the egg. Because everything starts from something, not from nothing.
I'd like to ask a few counter-questions: Can man create life from basic organic elements? What makes a heart beat? What makes our lungs breath air?
There are some things that our mortal minds will never be able to comprehend, that science and technology will never be able to explain.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
Asking this question is like asking "Where did Matter come from?"There is no definite answer. Even atheists/scientists cannot answer this type of question.
We know where matter comes from. Sufficient densities of energy will form matter.
That's actually a pretty straightforward physics question and not a mystery. It's possible to create new matter as well. In super-colliders, when they talk about discovering new particles, they're literally *making* those particles occur by re-creating the conditions in which that type of matters forms.
Also, I will note that 'atheists' and 'scientists' are two separate groups. Not all atheists are scientists or believe in science, not all scientists are atheists.
"How can something be created without a creator?" The classic chicken/egg argument. But we all know the chicken made the egg. Because everything starts from something, not from nothing.
Atum-Ra self-created as a shining egg.
Originally posted by Q99
We know where matter comes from. Sufficient densities of energy will form matter.
But where does this energy come from? I mean the energy from the Big Bang. Where did it come from? It's impossible to come from nothing.
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
I know that. I know we are all but particles of stardust fleeting in space.But where does this energy come from? I mean the energy from the Big Bang. Where did it come from? It's impossible to come from nothing.
Mm, in quantum stuff, that's not exactly true, a particle and anti-particle can form as long as they immediately self-annihilate (there's actual evidence of this, in the form of hawking's radiation). It's all incredibly small scale and rarely has an effect on anything, but that's in the universe's current conditions.
So in the pre-big bang conditions, those existing effects may be able to work on a larger scale.
In a way, it's similar to Atum-Ra creating himself as a shining egg, only possible in the endless primordial ocean of Nun....
Originally posted by AsbestosFlaygon
[B]"How can something be created without a creator?" The classic chicken/egg argument. But we all know the chicken made the egg. Because everything starts from something, not from nothing.
I tend to agree, but to be fair we don't all know the chicken made the egg. Some obviously do believe God has no beginning or end.
Re: If God created everything who created God?
Originally posted by Surtur
Simple question, where'd God come from if he is supposedly the source of everything?
This particular question is discussed, starting at about 5:00.
EDIT: Really touching the surface of the problem, but you'll easily find this claim backed up in many, much longer debates. Even in the one from which the excerpt comes from.
Originally posted by Surtur
But that is the thing. If someone is willing to say a godlike being always existed, then why couldn't..whatever energies formed the universe of always existed?