Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You do realize everything in game is scaled down? It probably was about a hundred, honestly. This is a game where twelve people was a stand in for a thousand strong army. One of which the Wrath took down easily.
I know it's scaled down, but we can't just speculate that there were 100 guys either. It's not like Valk needs to have destroyed 100 guys to destroy 10 Banes anyway.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
It was hundreds of guys because you see Arcann send squadrons, not because we're just guessing.
Ok but how many squadrons did he send exactly?
Because I counted 3 ships total, the first 2 waves were beaten before help arrived and then the last ship showed up which is where Valk took over.
Originally posted by Tondemonai
Have you seen the bit where the Outlander uses Valky's powers to save Lana? He just instantly wipes out everybody instantly and they're easily 100 strong. They're surrounding and beating them, yet just get rofl****ed instantly
I have not, and you are welcome to show it 1. Are they *within five feet in all directions?*
That's enough for immediate strikes.
Basically what *I'm* saying is a five foot surround is a fairly absurd situation that one is unlikely to ever have in combat, and give even outmatched foes a chance they would not realistically be able to achieve were they not started out like this.
Three fast standing directly behind you in lightsaber reach (when there's no possibility of stepping forward or to the side, and nor will turning prevent there being three from directly behind) is, in it's way, a lot more dangerous than 100 people who actually have to approach and deal with force powers and such.
1 Anyone here remember this is supposed to be a place to debate Vs, you know, show evidence and argue, not just show up at a thread and scoff for everyone not knowing the answer? I don't mind being wrong, I do want people to actually state and show their case.
Originally posted by Q99
I have not, and you are welcome to show it 1. Are they *within five feet in all directions?*That's enough for immediate strikes.
Basically what *I'm* saying is a five foot surround is a fairly absurd situation that one is unlikely to ever have in combat, and give even outmatched foes a chance they would not realistically be able to achieve were they not started out like this.
Three fast standing directly behind you in lightsaber reach (when there's no possibility of stepping forward or to the side, and nor will turning prevent there being three from directly behind) is, in it's way, a lot more dangerous than 100 people who actually have to approach and deal with force powers and such.
1 Anyone here remember this is supposed to be a place to debate Vs, you know, show evidence and argue, not just show up at a thread and scoff for everyone not knowing the answer? I don't mind being wrong, I do want people to actually state and show their case.
Oh, yea, that's what I thought, definitely not gonna do in scenario 2 (though it handles scenario 1). That's like a second or two from starting to the shockwave going out, where the focus is just on charging the power and not dodging around or anything.
In the 5 foot scenario, the Banes just need to extend their arms. If both sides all started their actions at the same time (when combat starts), by the time the shockwave hit the sabers would connect.
Look here my friend:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D34rwrhoaDs&t=0m20s
Valkorion is able to intervene with his powers to save Lana from a lightsaber seconds away from killing her.
And even if this isn't an accurate demonstration of his corporeal powers, it stands to reason that a being of his power would have perceptions and reactions infinitely greater than these trainee Banes.
Ergo Valkorion can and will attack before they can, and probably at a much faster rate than he did above seeing as he was channeling his power through an inferior vessel. And frankly assuming he is able its GG for the Banes. They have no hope of defeating him at long range.
Heck all Valkorion really needs to do is encase himself in a Force barrier, and their blades will bounce harmlessly off him. This assuming they even choose to attack, all at once within 5 feet of each other, where they are more likely to impale themselves.
EDIT: DMB beat me too it, but the point stands.
EDIT: It occurs to me that Valk may not even require a gesture, lesser Force users haven't. Meaning he could blow them away with a thought. 👆
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Valkorion is able to intervene with his powers to save Lana from a lightsaber seconds away from killing her.
But look- that's *one* foe with his arm way back in a swing. It's a second or two to connect.
This is ten foes, of almost certainly higher level, who only have to jab forward and rely on the quantity of their blades.
And even if this isn't an accurate demonstration of his corporeal powers, it stands to reason that a being of his power would have perceptions and reactions infinitely greater than these trainee Banes.
So? The fight starts at the same time for everyone. A quick stab looks a good deal faster than the total time of that move. It may start sooner but still end later.
It's like the Dark Empire Palpatine Force Storm issue- DE Palps' force storm could wipe out almost anyone, but it takes enough time to charge that a powerful foe won't give him the chance and he's better off using saber. The time of this force shockwave is faster than a force storm of course, but the foes are in an absurdly good position to act fast.
Heck all Valkorion really needs to do is encase himself in a Force barrier, and their blades will bounce harmlessly off him. This assuming they even choose to attack, all at once within 5 feet of each other, where they are more likely to impale themselves.
Hah, impale themselves? Not of they simply do one-handed stabs and such, and they're not *idiots*. Plus the force, foresight will show them enough to not get in each other's way.
Indeed, the positioning rather forces them to chose small but quick attacks, which is all that's needed.
And why would they not chose to attack? Under similar logic, one might say 'assuming Valkorion even chooses to attack.' There's no reason for anyone not to attack. Plus there's 10 of them. If half chose not to attack, the situation stands.
Never assume the enemy is just going to politely not attack.
You're ignoring the most critical points, namely that Valkorion can unleash an attack (which I'd add need not nearly be as potent) at far greater speeds and failing that, encase himself in a barrier.
My off hand remark that they might assess the situation first before going in stabby stabby is hardly the most important factor here.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
He only needs to move faster than one to move faster than all of them. 🙂
Not exactly. If he moves faster than one *but* with a move that only affects some of them, then the unaffected ones will still be able to strike before he can act against them specifically. So if he's saber-faster enough to strike, say, 3-4 Banes, then he's dead. If he can lightning blast half of them, same deal.
The moves that can hit everyone seemed not quick enough.
Beniboybling
You're ignoring the most critical points, namely that Valkorion can unleash an attack (which I'd add need not nearly be as potent) at far greater speeds
It really does need to be as potent- if he only strikes some of them- like, if he shoots lightning instead and blasts away half the Banes in front of him that doesn't stop the other Banes.
His big shockwave, from the video, looks too slow, it was against a lesser foe making a *huge* windup. What could he do that hits *all ten* before they can strike?
and failing that, encase himself in a barrier.
There's no 'failing that,' he has to make a split-second choice, he can't do something and then fall back on another move. And in melee, we know that he hasn't fallen back on a barrier, he's used energy absorption, a faster move but one that can only handle so much at once.
FreshestSlice
Q99 still trying his hardest is kek-worthy, if not admirable.
You, btw, have been worthless this thread.
Beniboyblin, Emperordmb, and I have been making arguments, you've been demonstrating nothing. I don't think you quite get how debates work, namely, one is supposed to question and test answers.
Originally posted by Q99Because a planet killer can't TK 10 trainee Banes at once. 😐
Not exactly. If he moves faster than one *but* with a move that only affects some of them, then the unaffected ones will still be able to strike before he can act against them specifically. So if he's saber-faster enough to strike, say, 3-4 Banes, then he's dead. If he can lightning blast half of them, same deal.The moves that can hit everyone seemed not quick enough.
It really does need to be as potent- if he only strikes some of them- like, if he shoots lightning instead and blasts away half the Banes in front of him that doesn't stop the other Banes.My goodness, repeating myself is getting rather tiresome.His big shockwave, from the video, looks too slow, it was against a lesser foe making a *huge* windup. What could he do that hits *all ten* before they can strike?
1. Valkorion was channeling his power through an inferior vessel, so its going to require a longer period of exertion.
2. He doesn't need to generate nearly as much energy here just to knock the Banes back, who are five feet away from him.
3. We have little reason to believe he'd even need to gesture, when Caedus is ragdolling prime-Jaina without one.
For all these reasons he should be able to unleash an attack before any of the Bane's can strike.
There's no 'failing that,' he has to make a split-second choice, he can't do something and then fall back on another move. And in melee, we know that he hasn't fallen back on a barrier, he's used energy absorption, a faster move but one that can only handle so much at once.Valkorion is an intelligent being, aware of his own strengths and can see events in slow motion, he's more than capable of calculating whether or not a TK attack would be sufficient without actually trying it, and if he deemed it was not, he would conjure a barrier instead.
The fact he hasn't used such a tactic, being hardly a point when he's never been in this kind of situation. And of course he's logically capable.
This being one of a myriad of powers he has at his disposal, giving him a myriad of options. Frankly he should be logically capable of teleporting, considering lesser contemporaries like Revan and Jadus can. Assaulting their minds simultaneously is also surely an option.
Altogether its just not logical to conclude Valkorion, one of the most powerful Force users ever, would be ensnared by this trap.