Originally posted by One Big MobSure, but that was not conventional running like in his race with Makkari, where he actually had to physically touch a surface, while 'running' in space is a fancy way of saying that he flies. Limited to physical running, Runner is only just under lightspeed.
Runner's first appearance had him running across galaxies over the course of like a day or some shit.
Originally posted by riv6672
He is by OP definition. This is what Facee asked for, you guy, you.
Yeah, but he didn't ask for anyone who can fly fast in space, but the top 10 speed feats. "Thor flies fast in space" wouldn't be in the top 10. There are far more then 10 characters in Marvel who can fly at FTL speeds in space.
Also if you want to be technical, it's the hammer that can fly at FTL speeds, not Thor. Thors own innate speed isn't even worth mentioning.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaUnder the same writer that is his max speed though. That's anyone's max speed and anything faster breaks the laws of the universe to a point where he invented a new "dimension" just to explain it. Which basically means that no matter what Runner does - run fly swim tornado spins - he will always be at that speed. Which is a direct contradiction to his first appearance.
Sure, but that was not conventional running like in his race with Makkari, where he actually had to physically touch a surface, while 'running' in space is a fancy way of saying that he flies. Limited to physical running, Runner is only just under lightspeed.
It's not a perfect example to use. The whole arc was basically just an excuse for Gruenwald to try and shove more of his shit down everyone's throats. He did the same thing with Starbrand where he took some herald level power and tried to make it the greatest thing that ever existed.
Ie.
Originally posted by Horrificus
right. And In the issue where Makkari finally reaches "absolute speed", im pretty sure it is stated that Runner moves at that speed as his top.It was also shown that it was the same for Fast Forward, aka "Buried Alien", aka Barry Allen.
And Absolute Speed is moving so fast, it would seem to be existing on a different level of being, unable to interact with the rest of the universe.
I dont have the books. Just trying to recall.
Never used again. Plus I think absolute speed was just lightspeed but I'm not sure on that. Maybe just a little bit faster... not sure.
Originally posted by Surtur
Yeah, but he didn't ask for anyone who can fly fast in space, but the top 10 speed feats. "Thor flies fast in space" wouldn't be in the top 10. There are far more then 10 characters in Marvel who can fly at FTL speeds in space.Also if you want to be technical, it's the hammer that can fly at FTL speeds, not Thor. Thors own innate speed isn't even worth mentioning.
Are you gonna take up Phil's challenge of street levelers being faster than Thor bz?
You dirty Superman fan u.
superdur
Originally posted by One Big MobYou mean the Runner who is able to transverse the Universe and is powered by the FTL tachyons? No, that Runner was also Gruenwald's runner.
Under the same writer that is his max speed though. That's anyone's max speed and anything faster breaks the laws of the universe to a point where he invented a new "dimension" just to explain it. Which basically means that no matter what Runner does - run fly swim tornado spins - he will always be at that speed. Which is a direct contradiction to his first appearance.It's not a perfect example to use. The whole arc was basically just an excuse for Gruenwald to try and shove more of his shit down everyone's throats. He did the same thing with Starbrand where he took some herald level power and tried to make it the greatest thing that ever existed.
Transverse the Universe:
Powered by faster than light tachyons:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2h663us&s=9#.VstrZOabS2c
It just so happens that under those special conditions [i.e. actual running], Runner's limit is sub-light.
I agree that Gruenwald had a hard-on for lightspeed - but nothing actually contradicts this per say.
that entire quasar 'absolute speed' arc was one of the worst arcs in history, and i don't think i'm exaggerating. buried alien was.....my god, i don't have the words.... light speed is weird though. in dc it has been said that breaking light speed means entering the speed force. when authors have such vastly different views on things (other authors seem to view light speed as almost slow for their guys...), it really throws things out of whack.
as far as thor--he fast but i don't see him being CONSISTENTLY portrayed beyond the fastest street level guys outside of travel speed. i'd wager phil would have a pretty damn good shot at winning a bz that tried arguing otherwise, unless a massive overemphasis was placed on one or 2 scans and a host of contradictory scans were ignored.....
Originally posted by PhilosophíaScan isn't working but I'm pretty sure the tachyon tunnels were just that and you couldn't gaze outside of them. It was basically Gruenwald trying to have his own defition of hyperspace but his own thing because he does whatever he wants.
You mean the Runner who is able to transverse the Universe and is powered by the FTL tachyons? No, that Runner was also Gruenwald's runner.Transverse the Universe:
Powered by faster than light tachyons:
http://tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2h663us&s=9#.VstrZOabS2c
It just so happens that under those special conditions [i.e. actual running], Runner's limit is sub-light.
I agree that Gruenwald had a hard-on for lightspeed - but nothing actually contradicts this per say.
It's even reiterated that nothing moves faster than light and it's the top speed by him when Mak won.
I'd have to reread it but I'm pretty sure they were tunnels while in Runner's first appearance he was showing Moondragon all sorts of funky shit and she could observe it while moving as opposed to the "walls" of the tunnels.
I'm not saying Runner can run physically faster on land than light, but under the same writer that was all he could move anyway without entering Gruenwaldspace. And flying wouldn't have changed that.
Plus I don't even know what Runner's movement classifies as anyway. Guy runs everywhere. Not sure it counts as flying.
Originally posted by leonidasI have quite a few guys on ignore so I didn't see that - are people really arguing again that Thor is faster in combat than street levelers? 😂
as far as thor--he fast but i don't see him being CONSISTENTLY portrayed beyond the fastest street level guys outside of travel speed. i'd wager phil would have a pretty damn good shot at winning a bz that tried arguing otherwise, unless a massive overemphasis was placed on one or 2 scans and a host of contradictory scans were ignored.....
As for the other part - like I said, I acknowledge that Gruenwald had a hard-on for lightspeed limit and pseudo-physics, but even then, that showing in itself isn't contradicted by anything. Going by speedster rules (i.e. running on surfaces, not pseudo-flying), Runner is sub-light.
Originally posted by One Big MobSorry, does it work now?
Scan isn't working but I'm pretty sure the tachyon tunnels were just that and you couldn't gaze outside of them. It was basically Gruenwald trying to have his own defition of hyperspace but his own thing because he does whatever he wants.It's even reiterated that nothing moves faster than light and it's the top speed by him when Mak won.
I'd have to reread it but I'm pretty sure they were tunnels while in Runner's first appearance he was showing Moondragon all sorts of funky shit and she could observe it while moving as opposed to the "walls" of the tunnels.
I'm not saying Runner can run physically faster on land than light, but under the same writer that was all he could move anyway without entering Gruenwaldspace. And flying wouldn't have changed that.
Plus I don't even know what Runner's movement classifies as anyway. Guy runs everywhere. Not sure it counts as flying.
http://oi67.tinypic.com/2h663us.jpg
It's the one where it says that Runner's trail is of tachyons - explained as faster than light particles, while he comes from outer space.
I think we agree on the rest though..except Gruenwald also had Runner able to transverse the Universe, which is impossible under lightspeed, while flying.
It's irrelevant, in the end, because my point was soley related to on-foot speed.
@phil--oh yeah, there are a couple arguing against. apparently you challenged anyone to a bz whereby you'd argue thor wasn't faster than a street leveler or something...? i think someone was suggesting they'd take you up on it? maybe? i've not been reading the whole thread....
i'd agree with the runner part since you've qualified it by stating only running speed, but bran has a point--he does seem to be running everywhere he goes, even on air or in a vacuum, so.... shrug
i do recall when mantis 'tripped' him while he was running on the ground.... lol
btw--you told me how to make quotes work again, but...i forget what you said. 🙁 how do you quote again?
Originally posted by PhilosophíaWorks now. Though it brings up some questions.
Sorry, does it work now?http://oi67.tinypic.com/2h663us.jpg
It's the one where it says that Runner's trail is of tachyons - explained as faster than light particles, while he comes from outer space.
I think we agree on the rest though..except Gruenwald also had Runner able to transverse the Universe, which is impossible under lightspeed, while flying.
It's irrelevant, in the end, because my point was soley related to on-foot speed.
Did that involve the "tachyon tunnels"? Or was he just flying freely about?
Either way Gruenwald contradicted himself since he said nothing is faster than light and showed it. If Runner is using tachyons then he's faster than light. 😂 if tachyons exist then he's wrong anyway.
I don't care about the contact running, I just wanted it to be known that the writer of that was a hack who didn't care what it was, it wasn't faster than light... unless he wrote it by accident a year or so earlier.
Originally posted by leonidasIf anybody wants to argue that Thor is historically shown as being faster than street levelers, I'm all for it 🙂
@phil--oh yeah, there are a couple arguing against. apparently you challenged anyone to a bz whereby you'd argue thor wasn't faster than a street leveler or something...? i think someone was suggesting they'd take you up on it? maybe? i've not been reading the whole thread....
Originally posted by leonidasI did some checking, and it was not only Gruenwald who separated his running from his flight [and lightspeed limit] - these are after his fights with Thanos/Surfer.
i'd agree with the runner part since you've qualified it by stating only running speed, but bran has a point--he does seem to be running everywhere he goes, even on air or in a vacuum, so.... shrugi do recall when mantis 'tripped' him while he was running on the ground.... lol
For example there's a specific difference stated between his speed and flight:
Speed: Orbital
Flight: Warp Speed
-- notice how hyperspace is mentioned.
Here's another example, that explains how his "Running works" - it generates energy that he uses for various things - "move his legs in a running pattern to build up energy sufficient enough to attain speeds greater than light, upon which he enters hyperspace" [soul gem-tied, but still] - notice how hyperspace is mentioned, again; "channel energy, through his running motions, into his own body, and expel it as concussive force"; "he absorbs life-maintaining cosmic energy through his running motions" etc.
So basically, the running generates energy, but it's not running in the 'usain bolt' sense. It's a means to generate energy and fuel his other abilities.
Originally posted by leonidasMy username seems to be quote-proof. Eventough sometimes it works. I dunno...
btw--you told me how to make quotes work again, but...i forget what you said. 🙁 how do you quote again?
Originally posted by One Big MobI think he just wanted them as not being able to run faster than light, while in space/flight everything goes. Then he went with the pseudo-science with higher-dimension/hyperspace, but the intent was clear.
Works now. Though it brings up some questions.Did that involve the "tachyon tunnels"? Or was he just flying freely about?
Either way Gruenwald contradicted himself since he said nothing is faster than light and showed it. If Runner is using tachyons then he's faster than light. 😂 if tachyons exist then he's wrong anyway.
I don't care about the contact running, I just wanted it to be known that the writer of that was a hack who didn't care what it was, it wasn't faster than light... unless he wrote it by accident a year or so earlier.
Anyway...
Pssh... Now u do it? I put this up in a BZ thread 3 months ago. Not long after your little challenge.
"I can't believe there are thor fans that still dare to argue he's faster than street levelers.
OPEN BATTLEZONE INVITATION for anyone willing to defend thor: I say that thor is not above street level combat speed (cap/spiderman etc). You say he's, what, lightspeed? Let's go."
Though Spidey is above street level however.
hmm
You are, and were, on ignore. I couldn't care less to read your posts.
I'll take you off ignore for the battlezone. This weekend ok for you?
4 posts each?
We start Saturday and end Sunday?
I'll raise you one: the loser leaves this forum for a month. No banning or anything like that - self imposed exile. I like stakes 🙂
Thor is not above street level combat speeds vs Thor is lightspeed.
Let's see who's right.
Originally posted by PhilosophíaNah. He made it pretty clear "nothing" was faster than light. Except when he forgets he wrote about tachyons. Iirc he invented Quantum Jumping just because he wouldn't allow Quasar to fly that fast.
I think he just wanted them as not being able to run faster than light, while in space/flight everything goes. Then he went with the pseudo-science with higher-dimension/hyperspace, but the intent was clear.Anyway...
I don't think he ever used hyperspace either in the way others were using it, though I could be wrong on that.
So while I won't argue that he can run on solid footing faster than light, I will argue that Gruenwald liked dicks. It's a miracle anything he writes is actually entertaining. Guy was pulling Bendis type things on things he wanted to do.
"Starlin's killing Quasar eh? Good thing this fraction of a fraction of this thing I turned abstract level for whatever reason resides within him... and that's why he can be erased with no consequences!"
