Generally speaking ...
1. Don't label me. Some issues I feel one way about, other things another way. So let's discuss issues, then if someone cares, s/he can label where I stand on that issue.
2. It seems almost as if labeling a person legitimizes attacks upon that person, that political affiliation is the last acceptable bastion of abject prejudice.
3. I prefer to discuss issues in terms of Rights and Responsibilities, not Liberal vs Conservative.
Re: Why are you liberal or progressive
Originally posted by Raisen
what values make you want to be a liberal or progressive?
Being it's more practical. Different people working together long-run works better. Not holding people's skin color, gender, or sexuality against them only makes sense, it's really quite pointless all the social barriers that have been put up. People from other cultures often has useful alternate points of view. Making peace with other countries has historically resulted in more profit for us.
Economically, well, *that's* super easy, austerity regularly causes economic crashes to get worse while stimulus to get better. Economics is not a zero-sum game and ironically, treating it like it is usually costs money.
Health care, universe health care works everywhere it's tried...
In short, cold, hard numbers. Most of this stuff makes good numbers go up, bad numbers go down, or both.
Re: Re: Why are you liberal or progressive
Originally posted by Q99
Being it's more practical. Different people working together long-run works better. Not holding people's skin color, gender, or sexuality against them only makes sense, it's really quite pointless all the social barriers that have been put up. People from other cultures often has useful alternate points of view. Making peace with other countries has historically resulted in more profit for us.Economically, well, *that's* super easy, austerity regularly causes economic crashes to get worse while stimulus to get better. Economics is not a zero-sum game and ironically, treating it like it is usually costs money.
Health care, universe health care works everywhere it's tried...
In short, cold, hard numbers. Most of this stuff makes good numbers go up, bad numbers go down, or both.
wait, are you implying that people who aren't liberal are racist and sexist.
can anybody explain why my many faces of hillary thread got closed. there are tons of other stupid threads that are similar and don't get closed. there are **** and ass threads etc yet a somewhat negative thread about a progressive gets closed. there are tons of negative conservative threads.
please be objective and see this for what it is
Originally posted by Raisen
can anybody explain why my many faces of hillary thread got closed. there are tons of other stupid threads that are similar and don't get closed. there are **** and ass threads etc yet a somewhat negative thread about a progressive gets closed. there are tons of negative conservative threads.
please be objective and see this for what it is
What threads in the GDF are similarly negative towards conservatives?
If you feel they should be closed you should report them, so the mods can look at them. And if you want to argue for your thread you can generally PM mods and talk to them.
The root of conservative is conserve. Conservatives seek to preserve or maintain the status quo.
The root of progressive is progress. Progressives seek to advance or improve the status quo.
The difference between the conservatives and progressives is how they view the state of affairs.
Conservatives see social and political institutions as idyllic, and perceive attempts to change them as attacks on those institutions.
Progressive see those same institutions as flawed, and see areas for improvement.
Bill Maher explains it this way:
"[Conservatives] have this nostalgia for this America they think was stolen from them that used to be, that was better. It's really the 1950s, okay? That's what they think was Shangri La.
You know, what they never get is that it's kind of insulting to a lot of Americans to pine for this era, because it wasn't that good for a lot of people. It was good if you were a white man. It wasn't that good if you were Mexican, or black, or Jewish, or disabled, or gay, or a woman."
Originally posted by Adam_PoE
The root of conservative is conserve. Conservatives seek to preserve or maintain the status quo.The root of progressive is progress. Progressives seek to advance or improve the status quo.
The difference between the conservatives and progressives is how they view the state of affairs.
Conservatives see social and political institutions as idyllic, and perceive attempts to change them as attacks on those institutions.
Progressive see those same institutions as flawed, and see areas for improvement.
Bill Maher explains it this way:
"[Conservatives] have this nostalgia for this America they think was stolen from them that used to be, that was better. It's really the 1950s, okay? That's what they think was Shangri La.
You know, what they never get is that it's kind of insulting to a lot of Americans to pine for this era, because it wasn't that good for a lot of people. It was good if you were a white man. It wasn't that good if you were Mexican, or black, or Jewish, or disabled, or gay, or a woman."
This is US politics you are talking about of course. Elsewhere, conservative politics tends to be progressive, if you can wrap your head around that. Progressive conservatism is a big ideology in the UK and Canada, as are equivalents in Europe.
It;s not always wise to take political terms literally. Frankly, the way the US has distorted the term 'liberal' over time is shocking.
To be honest, most of the Democrats in the US would fit somewhere in European conservative parties. Definitely in Germany.
A lot of the things that seem left in the US that Democrats argue for are just generally accepted by all mainstream parties in Europe.
I think the UK has a somewhat more right-wing conservative party than Germany though.
Originally posted by Bardock42
I think the UK has a somewhat more right-wing conservative party than Germany though.
The UK Conservative party is a big beast- it contains progressives and status-quoists alike.
For example- much as I know you don't like David Cameron, remember that he was the one who spearheaded equality for gay marriage in the UK, even at the cost of great dissent within his own party. DC is a declared progressive-conservative, and such a change can only be called a progressive one.
UK Conservatives tend to be more interested in traditions than never changing anything,
Yeah, I don't disagree with that, I don't think the label progressive makes much sense, definitely not in Europe. The mainstream parties are all fighting for change, though in different directions (in Germany at least in very slightly different directions imo, neither the conservative not social democratic party seem to have huge ideological difference here).
My dislike for Cameron has more to do with things like the increase in university tuition, his stance towards the EU, government surveillance and the GCHQ, the refugee crisis, etc.
Part of the reason why it seems to me like the politics in the UK are more right wing, is also that I don't really think Labour was particularly left leaning during its latest time in charge either.
Originally posted by Ushgarak
If you dislike Cameron for his EU stance, do I assume you dislike most UK politicians? He's fighting like crazy to stay in it rather tha leave, which is where a lot of the politics is. Corbyn, for example, is no fan of the EU.
Yeah, I was going to add the caveat that obviously dislike of the EU is very common in the UK generally (and I think there's many good points to dislike and want to fix about the EU anyways). And yeah, I dislike that part regardless of party affiliation, but for me it's obviously about the whole of his stances. If Cameron was in line with my political preferences and only diverged on the EU I'd love him.
Cuz conservatism is just plain stupid.
If we were all conservative we will be still be hunting gathering and at the most living in caves.
Thankfully we have people who like to peogress on everything and the challenge the status quo.
I laugh at conservatism and how illogical it is.
By conservatism standards people should not even use the internet to express ideas or post in community forums. They should be expressing their ideas the old fashion way, by telling stories in front of the campfire.
Thankfully every new young generation likes to challenge the status quo and that is why civilization flourishes, when you rob the new generations of that hunger for change then you have countries like North Korea and Iran stuck in the past