Originally posted by Stigma
Or... cuz iberalism is just plain stupid. 👆
Which you can't deny. Conservatism is bound to fail. Is like a law of nature. 😉
Even you as conservative as you might be now you will be consider progresive in the past 😆
Originally posted by Rao Kal El
And the rest you didn't read? Or just didn't play in your game?Which you can't deny. Conservatism is bound to fail. Is like a law of nature. 😉
Even you as conservative as you might be now you will be consider progresive in the past 😆
Eh, anyways everyone knows liberalism is a fail ideology.Its proponents like to live in a fantasy land. TBH it's self evident how full of fail liberalism is. Just look at the world. Even if you think you're a progressive now, in the past you'd be considered a regressive with an inclination for dictatorship.
Taste of your own medicine. Enjoy. 😉
Originally posted by StigmaList the policies that constitute the "liberal" ideology.
Of course I did not coz an argument that starts with "the other side is stupid" is dangerously close to an epic fail itself.Eh, anyways everyone knows liberalism is a fail ideology.Its proponents like to live in a fantasy land. TBH it's self evident how full of fail liberalism is. Just look at the world. Even if you think you're a progressive now, in the past you'd be considered a regressive with an inclination for dictatorship.
Taste of your own medicine. Enjoy. 😉
Originally posted by Tzeentch
List the policies that constitute the "liberal" ideology.
I'd be happy if you post a list.
On a side note, I've just finished Eric Foner's Story of American Freedom. Do not make me go medieval on your @ss...
Armed with sources like that I can do that easily. 🙂
Originally posted by Tzeentch
And yet you haven't. 👆
I didn't know I have to conform to your wishes lol. If you want post the list, why not. It would be easier to pick it apart using actual historical science like Foner's, Hofstadter's or Hackett's books as a source.
I am sure you are ignorant of that, as American libersls in general tend to be ignorant on a subject of political ideologies and history of their own nation ;-)
Originally posted by Bardock42
Tzeentch has a point though. Why talk about your grandiose ability to beat liberal arguments and their ideology, instead of just doing it?
But I might have been to harsh towards him, though.
TBH it's not so much an argument on my part as it is objective historic truth that liberalism of the 1800s was forfeited and replaced with an ideology that is close to socialism. Concentration of power is the opposite if what the Founding fathers wanted for the US to be
In other words, modern conservatives have more in common with Jefferson and the original thought of progressivism (moving away from centralized governments and monarchy) than modern liberals (who move towards centralized government).
To conserve means to take care of the values that Founding Fathers proposed and which were progressive.
To be a progressive nowadays is to be regressive and abbabdon these principles.
Irony of history.
Originally posted by Stigma
No, he has no point. He wants to make a list. Lol
He doesn't want to make a list. He wanted you to specify what you count as "liberal policies", to clarify a point you made.
Originally posted by Stigma
But I might have been to harsh towards him, though.TBH it's not so much an argument on my part as it is objective historic truth that liberalism of the 1800s was forfeited and replaced with an ideology that is close to socialism. Concentration of power is the opposite if what the Founding fathers wanted for the US to be
In other words, modern conservatives have more in common with Jefferson and the original thought of progressivism (moving away from centralized governments and monarchy) than modern liberals (who move towards centralized government).
To conserve means to take care of the values that Founding Fathers proposed and which were progressive.
To be a progressive nowadays is to be regressive and abbabdon these principles.
Irony of history.
I don't think regressive is the right word. Progressives in the US do not want to return to monarchy. Taking a simplification of conservatives and progressives that is something that will always happen. In simple terms, as it is used in the US conservatives are people that have chosen a point in time at which they want progress halted. So the people that got to that point will have been progressives. In that view progressives want to move society to a new state which they judge as better, conservatives want to preserve a state they consider ideal.
However like Ush hinted at, the conservative - progressive - liberal way of categorising is far too simplistic to actually map the political beliefs of people.
Originally posted by Stigma
Oh man you're lame 👆I didn't know I have to conform to your wishes lol. If you want post the list, why not. It would be easier to pick it apart using actual historical science like Foner's, Hofstadter's or Hackett's books as a source.
I am sure you are ignorant of that, as American libersls in general tend to be ignorant on a subject of political ideologies and history of their own nation ;-)
> asserts that "liberalism" is a failed ideology
> gets defensive when asked to define "liberalism"
Whew lad. Hitchen's razor in full effect.
Originally posted by Bardock42
He doesn't want to make a list. He wanted you to specify what you count as "liberal policies", to clarify a point you made.
Modern liberalism is about concentration of power and disregard for individual freedom
Originally posted by Bardock42
I don't think regressive is the right word. Progressives in the US do not want to return to monarchy.
Originally posted by Bardock42
Taking a simplification of conservatives and progressives that is something that will always happen.
Originally posted by Bardock42
In simple terms, as it is used in the US conservatives are people that have chosen a point in time at which they want progress halted. So the people that got to that point will have been progressives. In that view progressives want to move society to a new state which they judge as better, conservatives want to preserve a state they consider ideal.
Not really.Liberalism originally was about liberty and pushing the boundaries of liberty through progress. However, modern liberalism disregards this and pushes in the opposite direction, encroaching on liberties through centralization of power.
In other words, modern liberals regress back to the point where centralized, all-powerful government (ruler) was the problem. To deal with that there was an American Revolution.
Thus, modern progressives are pushing a backwards agenda. It's a parody of true progress.
[QUOTE=15630181]Originally posted by Bardock42
[B]However like Ush hinted at, the conservative - progressive - liberal way of categorising is far too simplistic to actually map the political beliefs of people.
BTW if you’re interested I recommend the science of memetics (originated by Richard Dawkins) that extrapolates on that.
Originally posted by Tzeentch
> asserts that "liberalism" is a failed ideology> gets defensive when asked to define "liberalism"
Whew lad. Hitchen's razor in full effect.
Just admit that you got lost when words like “historical science” and “sources” were mentioned. It’s okey to be an ignoramus on certain matters, no one will hold it against you. 👆
BTW Hitchen’s overrated. I prefer Occam.
@ Bardock
I'm reposting part of my response, becasue I cannot edit my post above (some malfunction, I guess).
Originally posted by Bardock42
In simple terms, as it is used in the US conservatives are people that have chosen a point in time at which they want progress halted. So the people that got to that point will have been progressives. In that view progressives want to move society to a new state which they judge as better, conservatives want to preserve a state they consider ideal.
Liberalism originally was about liberty and pushing the boundaries of liberty through progress. However, modern liberalism disregards this and pushes in the opposite direction, encroaching on liberties through centralization of power.
In other words, modern liberals regress back to the point where centralized, all-powerful government (ruler) was the problem. To deal with that there was an American Revolution.
Thus, Modern progressives are pushing a backwards agenda.
Originally posted by StigmaI accept your concession. 👆
Yeah, you still sound lame tbh.Just admit that you got lost when words like “historical science” and “sources” were mentioned. It’s okey to be an ignoramus on certain matters, no one will hold it against you. 👆
BTW Hitchen’s overrated. I prefer Occam.