Originally posted by KuRuPT ThanosiNone of those speed feats are a hundredth as good as Faora's or the people she's fought.
Hulk wins, and does so convincingly. You guys are acting like Hulk would never catch her at any point, when the opposite is actually true, he would and dominate once he does.All of this talk of Faora speed being so decisive is being disingenuous. It's simply not true, and Hulk would most certainly be able to tag her or get a hold of her. Simply take a look at the below video. He's literally flying around from building to building smashing dudes. Sometimes seemingly not even looking at his foes before leaping every which way imaginable. Which makes sense of course because as the Hulk he ahs heighted reactions. speed and perception. Yet the guy doing the below is never going to get her? Come on guys, you can't be serious.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nEo40Y-Qrc
His jumping movement is every bit as good as Faora's. Sure if Hulk just stands there and tries to go hand 2 hand, sure it will take some time to catch her. He'll be made to look like a full for awhile. Even in that scenario, he'd eventually smash her. However, once he's starts rampaging around doing his Hulk thing, he will smash, and smash Faora HARD
This is what would happen when he does
Oh, and Faora contended with someone faster, stronger, and more durable than Hulk in Superman.
Originally posted by relentless1
TIH is still MCU canon, so his showings there lower his average id say
"Average" being a fancy pseudo-synonym for "ignoring anything that doesn't fit within my extremely thin preconceived notions of their power levels and makes them more powerful than I think they should be!"
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Newest showings always outprioritize older ones (power creep). It's not about averages. One can always infer that he got more powerful as he learned to control his abilities (w/c actually fits the story progression).
Perhaps, but his speed hasn't really improved that much.
Maybe I'm not remembering his feats, but strength hasn't got that large a boost either apart from the Leviathan punch. I mean he was already pretty boss in the Incredible Hulk. Personally, I rate Abomination quite highly. There's nothing new since then (that I can remember) which would make me think that Norton Hulk couldn't replicate.
On another note, you know what's disappointing? Thor never really showing anything again on the level of his lightning smash he did in the first movie. I mean I gave him more respect for being able to hang in there against the Hulk physically, but I'd rather see him doing more stuff like this:
Originally posted by NemeBro
None of those speed feats are a hundredth as good as Faora's or the people she's fought.Oh, and Faora contended with someone faster, stronger, and more durable than Hulk in Superman.
Superman is def faster than Hulk but I'd like to see MoS Superman's strength/durability "feats" that put him clearly above Avengers Hulk.
Originally posted by Placidity
Perhaps, but his speed hasn't really improved that much.Maybe I'm not remembering his feats, but strength hasn't got that large a boost either apart from the Leviathan punch. I mean he was already pretty boss in the Incredible Hulk. Personally, I rate Abomination quite highly. There's nothing new since then (that I can remember) which would make me think that Norton Hulk couldn't replicate.
On another note, you know what's disappointing? Thor never really showing anything again on the level of his lightning smash he did in the first movie. I mean I gave him more respect for being able to hang in there against the Hulk physically, but I'd rather see him doing more stuff like this:
I mean there was def power creep in Avengers Hulk.
Heck, easily the most quantifiable buff would be the Jet fire incident. The F-35 (IIRC it was a F35) peppered Hulk with it's gun pod (w/c would be a GAU 22 25mm, a smaller version of the A-10's 30mm cannon). In Hulk 2, Abom was clearly portrayed as the more durable of the two. Yet the M134's 7.62mm rounds were hurting him enough for him to try and avoid it. You went from small miniguns = "owch!" to aircraft anti-armor rounds = "is some one tapping me on the shoulder"-level durability. Huuuge diff between a GAU 22's and a M134's rounds.
That's just one example.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I mean there was def power creep in Avengers Hulk.Heck, easily the most quantifiable buff would be the Jet fire incident. The F-35 (IIRC it was a F35) peppered Hulk with it's gun pod (w/c would be a GAU 22 25mm, a smaller version of the A-10's 30mm cannon). In Hulk 2, Abom was clearly portrayed as the more durable of the two. Yet the M134's 7.62mm rounds were hurting him enough for him to try and avoid it. You went from small miniguns = "owch!" to aircraft anti-armor rounds = "is some one tapping me on the shoulder"-level durability. Huuuge diff between a GAU 22's and a M134's rounds.
That's just one example.
Ok, I can appreciate stuff like that, but still seems minor in the scheme of things (IMO) because you really have to notice the details. This is something a fan may notice, but may not be something the writer even gave thought to.
Plus, Abomination can tank the rounds that were being fired from the chopper. I was just re-watching the scene earlier (2:58):
Maybe he avoids it because he doesn't want to get shot in the eyes. And Hulk could withstand .50 BMG rounds earlier, but its true he wasn't comfortable getting hit (he was blocking it with metal plates, but still getting hit without wounds). I agree Avengers Hulk seemed to "tank" the 25mm better than the .50, but he still wasn't completely unaffected, e.g he shields his face with his hands.
That said, you are right, his durability is discernibly higher (I wouldn't say substantially), but strength has not increased proportionally (again, apart from Leviathan Punch). I am sure there is something I'm forgetting though, Hulk should have a lot more feats now...
It should matter if he has the angier he gets the stronger he gets in Hulk two he really didn't want to fight Abom until Betty was in trouble then he really got angry and started getting stronger. Avengers 1 pain caused the first transformation the second was a focused anger and in 2 he varied degrees on anger. He would have to have a good reason fight to send over the deep end to win.
Originally posted by Placidity
Ok, I can appreciate stuff like that, but still seems minor in the scheme of things (IMO) because you really have to notice the details. This is something a fan may notice, but may not be something the writer even gave thought to.Plus, Abomination can tank the rounds that were being fired from the chopper. I was just re-watching the scene earlier (2:58):
Maybe he avoids it because he doesn't want to get shot in the eyes. And Hulk could withstand .50 BMG rounds earlier, but its true he wasn't comfortable getting hit (he was blocking it with metal plates, but still getting hit without wounds). I agree Avengers Hulk seemed to "tank" the 25mm better than the .50, but he still wasn't completely unaffected, e.g he shields his face with his hands.
That said, you are right, his durability is discernibly higher (I wouldn't say substantially), but strength has not increased proportionally (again, apart from Leviathan Punch). I am sure there is something I'm forgetting though, Hulk should have a lot more feats now...
He wouldn't have been shot in the eye, tho. He was climbing the building and they could only really shoot him in the back unless he turned his head.
You're right. My memory of the Hulk fight was kinda spotty and that may well have been a GAU 19 (w/c uses .50 BMG rounds) and not a M134. Still, a GAU 19's .50 cal rounds (converted to around 13mm) still has much less punching power compared to a GAU 22's 25mm rounds which were designed for anti-armor. I'm no ballistics expert but I believe the size and nature of the F-35's rounds would mean that they would have many times the muzzle energy (aka punching power) and penetrating power (as GAU 22's carry either armor piercing inc or high explosive inc rounds along with the tracers) rounds than the chopper's mounted gun. And the casual nature of how Hulk just tanked those rounds like they were literally nothing (notice the initial hits, Hulk didn't show any pain whatsoever, his face barely showed annoyance) kinda shows the enormous durability creep involved for the Avengers movie.
2:52 onwards
Heck, it took him a full 2 seconds to even realize he was being shot in the back.
I looked it up (I might be wrong as I only cursory research), a GAU 19's .50 BMG rounds would have a muzzle energy of around 15k joules. A GAU 22's 25mm rounds around 100k joules. An A-10 would be hitting for over 200k joules.
Edit. Calculation was off. Redid. Still need someone to validate as I'm no expert in ballistics. 😛
Another thing to note is that the GAU 22 has a firing rate of about 3300 rounds per minute and the pilot peppered Hulk for close to 10 seconds (which is funny cuz the F-35 gunpod can only really carry enough rounds for 4 seconds of continuous firing). Which means he probably nailed Hulk with over a hundred rounds easily.
Originally posted by golem370He doesn't need a good reason to beat Faora. He is far stronger and can take whatever she can dish out.
It should matter if he has the angier he gets the stronger he gets in Hulk two he really didn't want to fight Abom until Betty was in trouble then he really got angry and started getting stronger. Avengers 1 pain caused the first transformation the second was a focused anger and in 2 he varied degrees on anger. He would have to have a good reason fight to send over the deep end to win.
Originally posted by FrothByte
Yes but Faora is not as agile as Blonsky. We also don't know how fast Faora's reflexes are. It's one thing to be the initiator of a movement, quite another to be the one reacting.
she was able to react quite easily when Superman rushed her and his blitz speed was faster than Blonskys charging at Hulk if I recall. Also she easily parried and dropped Kal when he tried to club her out, her skill set hasn't really been addressed by the pro Hulk side either,; she's clearly a well seasoned hand to hand combatant and that will play the biggest factor in her fight against Hulk.
Originally posted by NemeBro
None of those speed feats are a hundredth as good as Faora's or the people she's fought.Oh, and Faora contended with someone faster, stronger, and more durable than Hulk in Superman.
As I showed in another thread. Faora only displayed super h2h combat speed while on the ground. Never did she display said speed while jumping nor flying. Even Zod never displayed any super speed punching while in the air. Name with Nam, when he and superman were exchanging in the air. Which could mean one of two things :
1. Faora can only fight at that speed while on the ground.
2. When it appeared THAT fast, was against regular humans. That's when her super speed was on display the most and accentuated the most. Even while on the ground in the IHOP against Supes, she did appear fast and made fast movement. Just didn't seem as fast nor as pronounce. We could've very well been seeing things from a human perspective when up against the soldiers
Further, it's literally laughable to call Superman more durable than the Hulk, I honestly can't take that seriously. Supes was VISIBLY affected by the 50 cal. shots.. it visibly shook him and moved him. He was KOed on 3 for sure occasions
1. Oil Rig
2. Faora and Nam temp KO'd him
3. WE
4. We could visually argue that Faora temp KO'd him in their IHOP encounter. When she slams him on the ground, he isn't moving and his eyes are shut. The reasons it's up for debate is because she quickly throws him. But again he appeared limp even when picked up. That is 3 or 4 instances of him being KO'd in one movie.
In all of Hulk's movies, even the current one. his track record shits all over Superman's. Literally a poop ensues. He's taken military fire to better effect, hammer shots and blows in general from another super powered being without being KO'd, long distance falls, hits from Abom (another super strong powered being). I could go on and on. An notion trying to pretend Zod, Superman or Faora are more durable than Hulk is a joke.
Hulk would absolutely eventually tag Faora and precede to beat the ever loving crap out of her. This is a non fight. It's only a fight if Hulk just tries to stand there and go h2h like a boxer. Sure, then she appears great, but even then eventually he'll tag her and it's game over then. The reality is, he'd try that at first, get slapped around a bit, get pissed and proceed to go ape crazy and give her the punk god treatment.
I could get into strength, because again, neither of them are stronger than Hulk. That is a total and butchery of the characters and what they bring to the table. It's plain being disingenuous. Hulk is stronger than any single Kryptonian, and to be frank, it's not all that close when Hulk really gets pissed. Again, it's a poop type of situation. I love the lengths some peope are going to try and have Faora wins. She's stronger and more durable BWHAHAHAHAH. Jesus H. Christ.
Hulk Smash, with minor difficulty
Originally posted by relentless1
she was able to react quite easily when Superman rushed her and his blitz speed was faster than Blonskys charging at Hulk if I recall. Also she easily parried and dropped Kal when he tried to club her out, her skill set hasn't really been addressed by the pro Hulk side either,; she's clearly a well seasoned hand to hand combatant and that will play the biggest factor in her fight against Hulk.
True she did evade Superman's charge, twice. But then again, that was a single attack. Blonsky was evading multiple hits from Hulk. Again, not saying Blonsky is faster than Faora, merely more agile. I can't quite see Faora jumping around like that avoiding Hulk's hits.
I just think it's silly to think that Hulk won't eventually be able to hit Faora. She's fast but not that fast. After all Superman seemed to be delivering non-superspeed punches at her.
I maintain my stance that Faora wins this 10/10 unless she has her mask weakness. Then her chances drop to 6/10.