Originally posted by queeq
Well, he doesn't. Vader does exactly the same as Tarkin did before him: brush Krennic off. If Tarkin already did that, why does the story need Vader to do it again?
He does. And your point here is plain wrong. I shouldn't have to refresh you on what happened in the movie. He tries to escalate above Tarkin's head while seizing power because Tarkin was a thorn in his egotistical side.
Why you forgot about that, I have no idea. But Vader acts as an antagonistic against the antagonist in this scenario, as well. Why you missed my point on purpose, I have no idea. Just to argue?
Originally posted by queeq
Okay, now I see where we differ. I don't need a piece of exposition to tell me why character X has to move from A to B, in this case because character Y says he should come. That's what you seem to like: explanation, exposition.
Actually, you do need it. You keep asking questions while ignoring information to pretend plot holes exist and when I explain what you forgot, you get mad and post more things that indicate you're ignoring facts to hold you position rather than saying, "Oh, okay, whoops, I forgot about that. Guess I had a baseless complaint, then."
Keep it on topic: you wondered why Vader came and pretended like it was just random that Vader came. As it is later revealed by me and you (which was odd…you actually admitted one of the reasons that Vader showed up but forgot), you know exactly why Vader came but just refuse to admit you had no point.
Originally posted by queeq
My "why" is about: why is Vader needed?
He's a successful battle hardened veteran and the attack dog of the emperor. Why you don't know this, I have no idea.
Originally posted by queeq
Why is he there?
Because Tarkin called him, because he was extremely useful to stop the attack on one of the most important military facilities of the empire. I've already stated these reasons and more. Clearly, Tarkin did not have enough to stop a very large surgical strike force from the Rebels without taking more heavy losses…which he did. Add on to that that Tarkin thought Krennic was a useless weasel, and it should be obvious why Tarkin wanted Vader to clean up.
Originally posted by queeq
How does he progress the story of form an obstacle to the protagonists.
Shortly after he shows up, the rebels are having a shit time and Vader lays down the hammer, just like he was called to do. Did you watch the same movie I did? No you didn't. I think you were texting on your phone during the movie. haha
Originally posted by queeq
In no way does he hinder or help the antagonists in obtaining the DS plans or in transmitting them to the rebel ship.
You’re thinking of the movie from an omniscient perspective and not from what is actually happening for the antagonists on screen. At the time, did they REALLY know that the plans were being stolen? Or did they only figure that out after the plan was pretty much done? Vader was called to help quell the rebellion and that’s what he did and he did it well.
Originally posted by queeq
Because that was the mission: get the rebel plans!
No it wasn’t. Good Lord…ugh. That was never the mission, ever. It was to recover their own damn plans. lol
Originally posted by queeq
They did so and Vader played no part in that storyline whatsoever.
Well, except the part where he played the parts in the storyline that you forgot.
Originally posted by queeq
The answer is not: because Tarkin called him up and asked him to come chill on Scarif. The answer is: he wasn't needed, not in the way he was portrayed. It didn't help the story, despite the cool end scene.
Except for the reasons I stated, which are legit. Just admit you have a shitty point. You forgot what happened in the movie. Cool. Now just admit it instead of dragging out this painful and cringey experience.
Originally posted by queeq
This would be like Tarkin saying: send out Spider-Man and make him swing from tree to tree on Scarif. And then, POW there's Spider-Man, swinging from tree to tree. And I'd go: "WTF is Spider-Man is this movie? What purpose does he serve? He doesn't even belong in the SW universe?"And you go: "Didn't you pay attention? Because Tarkin ordered him to show up!"
Yeah, right, dude.
You’d have a point if Spider-man took out the rebels on the ground after he showed up. And then I’d say, “Did you even watch the movie? Because he cleaned up all the rebels on the ground after showing up” just like I am, now. Nice try with your example, though. You’ll get ‘em one day, tiger.
Originally posted by queeq
Again, you don't get it. Vader wasn't the Julius Caesar here.
Wait…hold up. I think you may purposefully try to miss my point based off these words. I’m referring to the military commander Julius Caesar, not the dictator or the Consul.
Originally posted by queeq
Tarkin was. Julius Caesar planned his campaigns, ordered the armies into position etc etc. Vader didn't do anything like that or like Tarkin did at the battle of Scarif. He didn't turn the battle around. the destruction of the shield did, Tarkin and his DS showing up did, Vader just went after the plans after they were transmitted. But clearly the eye candy has you dazzled to see what really goes on in R1.
No, you missed the point entirely. Vader was the decisive military defeat against the rebels that was needed to quickly end the bullshittery going on above Scarif. But now you’re laser focusing on a particular version of “Julius Caesar” to purposefully miss the point just to try to find some sort of face for yourself. But who cares? Why do you care so much about your face?
After Vader shows up, the Rebels want to get the eff out of there. The Death Star plus Vader was a no go. They also had the plans…
The Death Star, alone, was not enough…it is slow to position its superlaser. But Vader and his forces were too much and it would cause too much of a loss so they left.
Originally posted by queeq
So I understand why you have problems understanding me. You don't seem to understand the difference between story and exposition. If things are not clearly explained to you by the main characters, then for you it didn't happen.
You’re mistaken: you’re not understanding me. Your point is very simple and very simply wrong. You’re not making some sort of amazing observation about the movie that reveals your complex mind that has so much insight. Just the opposite. It seems petty, childish, and reveals that you just didn’t pay attention in the movie theater. “I don’t wike Vadoor being in duh mewvee. Harumph!”
Originally posted by queeq
For some reason you also don't seem to think film makers of prequels should stay loyal to the sequel material that existed long before they made their new additions. I feel they should.
You should stop pretending that my point is your point. I pointed out how you failed, multiple times and in multiple ways, to see how your whining actually ended up being about ANH because of how well R1 sticks to ANH continuity. Your poor memory is the actual problem, really.
Originally posted by queeq
If the OT would have had Vader always wear a red helmet, and the R1 has him wearing a black one, I'd say R1 is making a mistake. But your argument is that the problem is with ANH, because.... ANH HAPPENS after R1.
No, no…you have it wrong. I’m pointing out that you are whining about problems with R1 but you’re so stubborn you don’t realize you’re actually complaining about ANH while trying desperately to try to pin your complaint on R1.
Originally posted by queeq
This is the thing: if I propose that for almost 40 years it was somewhat clear (not literally told to us on camera by characters from the film) Vader was tasked with finding the rebel base and we don't see any of it in R1, then that DOESN'T mean that Vader wasn't just because we don't see it in R1. It just shows the film makers didn't really think about Vader's character in R1. Which is my problem here...
The thing is…for 40 years, it was never clear if Vader was tasked with this. For 40 years, people just assumed that the Rebels were a thorn in the Empire’s side in ANH it would be just plain awesome if the Emperor or Vader could use their supposed magical abilities to divine out something, anything, that would help the Empire smack down the rebellion. You adding in your own story is fine…but it is baseless (ha…pun).
Originally posted by queeq
Maybe now's the time to tell you that SW didn't really happen, that people make up this fairytale as they go along. Not in the order of the SW timeline, but in order of the years the films are produced. Oh, and Santa doesn't really exist either, despite the fact that people explained to you he did.
Thanks for letting me know. So now is the time to tell you that you’re the type that will always hate any prequel to Star Wars and you’re a blind and ignorant fanboy of the Original Trilogy. But keep whining: it is entertaining to watch you slowly pick apart the Original Trilogy without you realizing it. 🙂