Originally posted by ares834
That criticizing R1 for not explaining who Vader is is a stupid complain.And I completely agree.
Well, actually, they do have a point. I haven't really got a clue what Vader's position is in R1. It was always rather unclear in ANH after the PT. In ANH Vader seems to be on Tarkin's leash and it made us wonder if Vader was in a subpar position to governors.
In this movie we don't really know what his position is either, what he's doing. From ANH I understood he was out searching for the rebel base. Not taking baths in his lava palace. And why Vaders has to show up at the battle of Scarif is also quite unclear: why was he needed? He didn't add anything to the battle at all. All he did was go after the plans. Well, we knew that from ANH already.
So apart from simply explaining "this is Darth Vader, a really bad guy', giving him some status, a real point in this movie instead of just showing up and be a bad ass for a few minutes, is actually a really valid point. After all, when you look it really well, his presence is rather pointless to the story. So there's more to the RLM complaint than you think.
To me it shows R1 is for a large point pure fan service and not great storytelling.
What a load of apologist bs.
I re-watched that part of the video and that isn't what he's saying at all. His whole premise starts with "If this was a generic SF movie instead of SW then...." and then he goes on to say that elements would be unclear. Which is ****ing stupid because this is explicitly a prequel to ANH, set literally a day before ANH and expects you to be familiar with SW already because thats the whole point of the ****ing movie. He only vaguely mentions Vader's role in that it would be unclear without context. His criticism is that without context the movie wouldn't work. But... the context does exist and so his criticism doesn't make sense. You can say the same things abut RotJ but the criticism is obviously bs because its a sequel and the previous movies already explained everything. The same holds for R1.
Edit: Hell, these guys are CONSTANTLY criticising movies for re-explaining backstories for Batman, Superman etc, stating that everyone already knows these things so its pointless to waste time on it. So not only is this a stupid criticism, but its downright hypocritical in the extreme.
Then he makes another idiotic criticism of "If this was a generic SF movie instead of SW then it would be dumb that they didn't blow up the Death Star at the end." ****ing stupid.
And then he makes ANOTHER idiotic criticism of "Why didn't Mads just tell them to shoot the exhaust port". Um, gee, idk maybe because its the size of a fvcking moon? Maybe it's a bit more complicated than that and you actually need a map to know where the port is? Ya think?
Absolute trash video, all you've done is expose more of it's idiocy.
I'm a little late to the party but i just recently saw this. I thought it was quite good. I think the script could have used a bit of trimming and tweaking. It was definitely a beautiful movie. I think this one has done the best at recapturing the original tone of the OT while still being to set it's own. Even though i like the casting i think the characters could have used more refining. Not a bad movie though..., a step in the right direction, i thought.
Originally posted by NephthysI'm getting a Quanchi vibe from this.What a load of apologist bs.
I re-watched that part of the video and that isn't what he's saying at all. His whole premise starts with "If this was a generic SF movie instead of SW then...." and then he goes on to say that elements would be unclear. Which is ****ing stupid because this is explicitly a prequel to ANH, set literally a day before ANH and expects you to be familiar with SW already because thats the whole point of the ****ing movie. He only vaguely mentions Vader's role in that it would be unclear without context. His criticism is that without context the movie wouldn't work. But... the context does exist and so his criticism doesn't make sense. You can say the same things abut RotJ but the criticism is obviously bs because its a sequel and the previous movies already explained everything. The same holds for R1.
Edit: Hell, these guys are CONSTANTLY criticising movies for re-explaining backstories for Batman, Superman etc, stating that everyone already knows these things so its pointless to waste time on it. So not only is this a stupid criticism, but its downright hypocritical in the extreme.
Then he makes another idiotic criticism of "If this was a generic SF movie instead of SW then it would be dumb that they didn't blow up the Death Star at the end." ****ing stupid.
And then he makes ANOTHER idiotic criticism of "Why didn't Mads just tell them to shoot the exhaust port". Um, gee, idk maybe because its the size of a fvcking moon? Maybe it's a bit more complicated than that and you actually need a map to know where the port is? Ya think?
Absolute trash video, all you've done is expose more of it's idiocy.
Originally posted by queeq
I haven't really got a clue what Vader's position is in R1. It was always rather unclear in ANH after the PT. In ANH Vader seems to be on Tarkin's leash and it made us wonder if Vader was in a subpar position to governors.In this movie we don't really know what his position is either, what he's doing.
Yes, but why is this a problem, again? Why does anyone care besides autistic nerds who really want to place Vader somewhere in a command hierarchy of the Empire?
Let's be more clear...
This is, again, a problem from ANH, not R1. R1 doesn't make it anymore clearer than any of the OT or PT. And why does it have to, again? Forget all the questions I asked, just now, just answer that last one.
Originally posted by queeq
From ANH I understood he was out searching for the rebel base.
No, that's wrong. ANH starts out that he is looking for the intercepted transmission of the Death Star plans, not the Rebel Base. He literally says that while strangling a rebel officer. Here is the actual ANH dialogue from the beginning (not the start) of the film:
Originally said by some Imperial Officer
"The Death Star plans are not in the main computer."
Originally said by some Dang Diddly Darth Vader while choking a poor schmuck Rebel Officer
Where are those transmissions you intercepted? What have you done with those plans?
Originally said by some poor schmuck Rebel Officer
We intercepted no transmissions. Aaah... This is a consular ship. Were on a diplomatic mission.
Originally posted by queeq
Not taking baths in his lava palace.
Yeah, it is pretty obvious that he's not out looking for plans that have not been stolen yet. 😐
Originally posted by queeq
And why Vaders has to show up at the battle of Scarif is also quite unclear: why was he needed?
Oh, you mean why did Tarkin and Vader show up to a major Imperial security complex; which held the Death Star plans, which Vader had previously established was supposed to be a super top secret project; that was under attack by rebel forces? Is that what you're asking? Yes, good question. Can't quite put my finger on why they showed up...but I feel like the answer is right there...ready to grab my attention.
Originally posted by queeq
He didn't add anything to the battle at all. All he did was go after the plans. Well, we knew that from ANH already.
I mean, yeah...that is what he did at the very end of the movie but that is quite clearly not why he showed up. And let me get this straight: you're pissed because Vader started to do something at the ending of Rogue One that he is still doing at the very beginning of ANH? Do you even buy this bullshit, dude? You're literally complaining about the story having plot continuity.
Originally posted by queeq
So apart from simply explaining "this is Darth Vader, a really bad guy',
Orrr....what I obviously said. Yeah, let's go with that.
Originally posted by queeq
giving him some status, a real point in this movie instead of just showing up and be a bad ass for a few minutes, is actually a really valid point. After all, when you look it really well, his presence is rather pointless to the story. So there's more to the RLM complaint than you think.
Or, you know, he is the religious figurehead sidekick of the Emperor like was established in the Original Trilogy and Prequel Trilogy. Let's go with that. Not your thing.
Originally posted by queeq
To me it shows R1 is for a large point pure fan service and not great storytelling.
You can delete "R1" and put "ANH" in there because you're getting mad about the OT, again, but just don't realize it.
🙂
I think both prey on nostalgia a lot, but Rogue One does it in a way where you actually feel like the RO people know their Star Wars inside and out, and knew how to get that reaction from die-hard SW fans in a way that Abrams simply didn't.
It's about using the right nods at the right time, be it in music, characters (even the ****ing pilots from ANH are there), and just a generally far superior attention to detail.
Sure, FA has the likeable Finn, Han and Chewie, but I think RO does more, better universe building, personally.
Originally posted by dadudemon
ANH starts out that he is looking for the intercepted transmission of the Death Star plans, not the Rebel Base. He literally says that while strangling a rebel officer....
Yeah, it is pretty obvious that he's not out looking for plans that have not been stolen yet. 😐
...
Oh, you mean why did Tarkin and Vader show up to a major Imperial security complex; which held the Death Star plans, which Vader had previously established was supposed to be a super top secret project; that was under attack by rebel forces? Is that what you're asking? Yes, good question. Can't quite put my finger on why they showed up...but I feel like the answer is right there...ready to grab my attention.
...
You can delete "R1" and put "ANH" in there because you're getting mad about the OT, again, but just don't realize it.🙂
Problem 1: you're not very funny even though you think you are.
Problem 2: you don't listen and you don't seem to understand storytelling very well
Problem 3: you have shown before you don't know ANH very well, and here again you demonstrate you don't know it yet you think seem to think ANH is the problem.
Yes, I may be thinking to much from a storytelling perspective if I think that if villains show up in a movie, they should pose obstacles for the protagonists. If not: what makes them villainous? Now, as for Darth Vader: he's only a danger to the R1 mission at the very very end. Before that he is not relevant. And when Tarkin asks people to inform Vader about the Scarif situation, it's never made clear why Vader was needed. Despite his cool actions on the rebel ship, he never really endangers the R1 mission. So... Vader doesn't really serve a purpose in this movie from a narrative perspective: he has no influence whatsoever to the outcome of the protagonists' goals. Now, you don't think that is a problem, you eat anything they spoon feed you. I however, feel the filmmakers should have thought about this more. Either take him out, or... as would now have been my preference, put him in MORE. He's more of a character than Krennic is, who doesn't have any power at all it seems, in R1.
Then back to Vader's activities prior to the battle of Scarif. Again you demonstrate not to know ANH very well. It's very clear the interception of the DS plans was something that suddenly came up upon discovery of the theft. I think that was clear in ANH and so it was in R1. No problems there.
However, during the ANH council meeting on the DS, Vader gets sneered at by Admiral Motti saying that the Force hasn't given him enough clear voyance enough to finding out the location of the hidden rebel base. Tarkin confirms in a way that finding that base has something of a priority. Especially now that the plans have been stolen. To me, it's clear that Vader was tasked with finding the hidden rebel base well before the DS plans were stolen. Why else would Motti sneer at him that way? Obviously Vader has been at it for a while... If Vader was doing nothing, Motti could have sneered at him that 'taking baths were a greater priority for the Sith Lord to "heal" his 20 year old wounds instead of bringing order to the galaxy'.
I doubt Vader would have gone searching for the rebel base after the battle of Scarif instead of chasing Leia... So it seems only proper that that was Vader's main job before shit hit the fan in the theaters...er... on Scarif.