Originally posted by queeq
Problem 1: you're not very funny even though you think you are.
An irrelevant personal attack. Odd. haha
Originally posted by queeq
Problem 2: you don't listen and you don't seem to understand storytelling very well
I seem to really well, actually. 🙂
Originally posted by queeq
Problem 3: you have shown before you don't know ANH very well, and here again you demonstrate you don't know it yet you think seem to think ANH is the problem.
I made two mistakes against your thousands. Comparatively, I'm perfect. Compared to even most diehard fans, I'm pretty damn good. Try harder.
Originally posted by queeq
Yes, I may be thinking to much from a storytelling perspective if I think that if villains show up in a movie, they should pose obstacles for the protagonists.
Why not pose as obstacles to other antagonists and the protagonists?
Originally posted by queeq
If not: what makes them villainous? Now, as for Darth Vader: he's only a danger to the R1 mission at the very very end. Before that he is not relevant.
Except for the fact that he has literal sway and audience with the Galactic Emperor which becomes a central plot point for our primary antagonist. But don't let that get in the way of your Alzheimer Tirade. 🙂
Originally posted by queeq
And when Tarkin asks people to inform Vader about the Scarif situation, it's never made clear why Vader was needed.
So wait a minute...
You openly admit that you knew exactly why Vader is there (because Tarkin informed him) in this post but in the last post, you said we don't even know why he's there? Really, dude? Come on. 🙁
And it was never made clear why Vader was needed despite the fact that he "WTFPWNED some newbz" when he showed up? And I'm not talking about some hallway scene that you're strangely butthurt about.
"Man, I have no idea why Julius Caesar was needed for this battle."
Originally posted by queeq
So... Vader doesn't really serve a purpose in this movie from a narrative perspective:
Yeah, sure, if you forget what he actually did like you have.
Originally posted by queeq
he has no influence whatsoever to the outcome of the protagonists' goals.
Well, you know, except actually turning the battle around. Or are you mad because the protagonists won at the end? haha, that's another ANH criticism, bruh. Spoiler Alert: the Rebels destroy the death star in ANH because they successfully get the plans to the Rebel Base.
Originally posted by queeq
Now, you don't think that is a problem, you eat anything they spoon feed you.
Oh really? Is that why I have TFA as my weakest Star Wars main ilogy storyline movie? But if you need to justify why your arguments are chocked full of missing information, wrongly remembered information, and childlike expectations of story telling, do so. You liked to gloss over my criticisms of the movie. You should note that my criticisms are more based on opinions and not factually incorrect ideas like yours. The reason it is so easy to destroy your points is you literally support your opinions with false information (or you have to ignore it to make your opinion correct).
Originally posted by queeq
I however, feel the filmmakers should have thought about this more. Either take him out, or... as would now have been my preference, put him in MORE. He's more of a character than Krennic is, who doesn't have any power at all it seems, in R1.
My opinion is that they did the right amount of Vader and that Krennic had plenty of power but he was correctly portrayed as wanting more and got a death sentence for it. I mean...that feels like classic Chinese literature.
Originally posted by queeq
Then back to Vader's activities prior to the battle of Scarif. Again you demonstrate not to know ANH very well.
I literally quoted ANH verbatim so this is not something you can claim and be taken seriously about. Why did I quote it? Because you clearly demonstrated you forgot what Vader was doing in ANH.
Summary of what you just tried to do:
You: Vader did this.
Me: No he didn't. He did this. Here is the literal quote to prove it.
You: You forgot what happened.
Me: ??? WTF?
Originally posted by queeq
It's very clear the interception of the DS plans was something that suddenly came up upon discovery of the theft. I think that was clear in ANH and so it was in R1. No problems there.
Alright, fair enough, I think we finally came to an agreement on something.
Originally posted by queeq
However, during the ANH council meeting on the DS, Vader gets sneered at by Admiral Motti saying that the Force hasn't given him enough clear voyance enough to finding out the location of the hidden rebel base. Tarkin confirms in a way that finding that base has something of a priority. Especially now that the plans have been stolen. To me, it's clear that Vader was tasked with finding the hidden rebel base well before the DS plans were stolen.
Okay, that's a great fan theory but one that is not supported. We never see Vader get tasked with that. Just as likely, any of the Grand Moffs could be tasked with that as well as the generals or admirals. In that same exact sentence, you left off the first part:
Originally posted by Sir Chokey Motti
"Don't try to frighten us with your sorcerer's ways, Lord Vader. Your sad devotion to that ancient religion has not helped you conjure up the stolen data tapes, or given you clairvoyance enough to find the Rebel's hidden fort..."
Originally posted by queeq
Why else would Motti sneer at him that way? Obviously Vader has been at it for a while...
Yeah, if you're referring to the Death Star Plans, you would be correct. But not regarding the rebel base: there is no evidence to support that Vader was ever tasked with finding the rebel base.
Originally posted by queeq
If Vader was doing nothing, Motti could have sneered at him that 'taking baths were a greater priority for the Sith Lord to "heal" his 20 year old wounds instead of bringing order to the galaxy'.
So you're mad that Vader was in a Kolto tank trying to heal his wounds at his personal base? I don't understand why. Is it because that his base on Mustafar was a place that came from the PT so you automatically hate it? Seriously, dude, why do you hate it that he was getting some Kolto Tank treatment? That's a Star Wars thing.
Originally posted by queeq
I doubt Vader would have gone searching for the rebel base after the battle of Scarif instead of chasing Leia... So it seems only proper that that was Vader's main job before shit hit the fan in the theaters...er... on Scarif.
I am having a hard time understanding your point, here. It seems as if you disagree with yourself. If Vader would not have tried to find the rebel base, then that means it wasn't one of his priorities. But you just said that you personally believe it was one of his priorities just a little bit ago. So which is it? You do believe it or you don't?
If Vader had played a greater role in the plot he would left little room for Tarkin and Krennic imo. Vader as an background presence who made a climatic appearance at the end was the right way to use him, and though he may done little to serve the plot (though the scene at Vader's castle did work to flesh out the rivalry between Krennic and Tarkin) he certainly did tremendous things for the atmosphere, which is equally important.
Well, yeah... but why not give him some substance then as well? Is that too much to ask for these people that make millions of of us? He's a much more impressive character than Krennic.
Originally posted by dadudemon
Why not pose as obstacles to other antagonists and the protagonists?
Well, he doesn't. Vader does exactly the same as Tarkin did before him: brush Krennic off. If Tarkin already did that, why does the story need Vader to do it again?
Originally posted by dadudemon
You openly admit that you knew exactly why Vader is there (because Tarkin informed him) in this post but in the last post, you said we don't even know why he's there? Really, dude? Come on. 🙁
Okay, now I see where we differ. I don't need a piece of exposition to tell me why character X has to move from A to B, in this case because character Y says he should come. That's what you seem to like: explanation, exposition.
My "why" is about: why is Vader needed? Why is he there? How does he progress the story of form an obstacle to the protagonists. In no way does he hinder or help the antagonists in obtaining the DS plans or in transmitting them to the rebel ship. Because that was the mission: get the rebel plans! They did so and Vader played no part in that storyline whatsoever. Hence my question: why was Vader needed at the battle of Scarif? Why was he in this movie? The answer is not: because Tarkin called him up and asked him to come chill on Scarif. The answer is: he wasn't needed, not in the way he was portrayed. It didn't help the story, despite the cool end scene.
This would be like Tarkin saying: send out Spider-Man and make him swing from tree to tree on Scarif. And then, POW there's Spider-Man, swinging from tree to tree. And I'd go: "WTF is Spider-Man is this movie? What purpose does he serve? He doesn't even belong in the SW universe?"
And you go: "Didn't you pay attention? Because Tarkin ordered him to show up!"
Yeah, right, dude.
Originally posted by dadudemon
And it was never made clear why Vader was needed despite the fact that he "WTFPWNED some newbz" when he showed up? And I'm not talking about some hallway scene that you're strangely butthurt about."Man, I have no idea why Julius Caesar was needed for this battle."
Again, you don't get it. Vader wasn't the Julius Caesar here. Tarkin was. Julius Caesar planned his campaigns, ordered the armies into position etc etc. Vader didn't do anything like that or like Tarkin did at the battle of Scarif. He didn't turn the battle around. the destruction of the shield did, Tarkin and his DS showing up did, Vader just went after the plans after they were transmitted. But clearly the eye candy has you dazzled to see what really goes on in R1.
So I understand why you have problems understanding me. You don't seem to understand the difference between story and exposition. If things are not clearly explained to you by the main characters, then for you it didn't happen.
For some reason you also don't seem to think film makers of prequels should stay loyal to the sequel material that existed long before they made their new additions. I feel they should.
If the OT would have had Vader always wear a red helmet, and the R1 has him wearing a black one, I'd say R1 is making a mistake. But your argument is that the problem is with ANH, because.... ANH HAPPENS after R1.
This is the thing: if I propose that for almost 40 years it was somewhat clear (not literally told to us on camera by characters from the film) Vader was tasked with finding the rebel base and we don't see any of it in R1, then that DOESN'T mean that Vader wasn't just because we don't see it in R1. It just shows the film makers didn't really think about Vader's character in R1. Which is my problem here...
Maybe now's the time to tell you that SW didn't really happen, that people make up this fairytale as they go along. Not in the order of the SW timeline, but in order of the years the films are produced. Oh, and Santa doesn't really exist either, despite the fact that people explained to you he did.
I finally saw this movie.
Why is everyone talking about Darth Vader so much? He's a non-entity in the film. He didn't advance the plot, he didn't give us insight into anything important, he didn't do anything that wasn't just eye candy. Except make a wicked pun. I never thought I'd hear Vader make a pun, much less make it so genuinely intimidating. Well done.
But other than that he was just there to connect the last few minutes of this film to the first few of ANH. Same with creepy Leia. So why is everyone focusing on him so much?
Pretty much, there's no pleasing anybody.
Vader's part was small and inoffensive, I found. I like the bacta tank scene. It was quick, but gave a nice visual reminder of his vulnerability immediately before he intimidates and chokes John Daggett. Who still doesn't feel in charge. The lightsaber slaughter at the end did nothing for me, but whatever. It didn't feel gratuitous. Actually had a nice KotOR feel to it.
Vader was such a tiny part of this movie, I can't believe he's occupying so much of the arguments and conversations.
EDIT: the hammerhead ship that rammed the Star Destroyer---was that a direct lift of the Republic ships from KotOR? Looked like it.
Yeah I ignored most of the childish bickering around here about Krennic being "badass" or whatever. Is that because of the trailers vaguely making him out to be? He was just some *sshole in charge of building the Death Star who wanted recognition from his superiors. That was pretty much all there was to his character.
Anyway this has already beaten Civil War domestically and will end up being the highest grossing domestic earner of 2016. Might not catch CW's Worldwide gross though, but will definitely pass the magic $1Billion mark. With half a Bill domestically.
Not bad for spin off film with no romance plot and not the most kid friendly either.
Originally posted by Lord Lucien
Vader was such a tiny part of this movie, I can't believe he's occupying so much of the arguments and conversations.
Wel, to me it mainly has to do with the fact that he was such a tiny part of this movie. Either it is fan service, like a lot is in this movie, and that would be annoying. Or he would have a crucial part to play in this movie, but he doesn't.
But also, even in those short moments he's more impressive as a villainous character than Krennic is. Vader's presence (or lack of it) kinda encompasses the problem with the entire film: it's about things that must happen, motivation of characters is often vague or bland. in fact, most of the new characters are entirely bland and uninteresting. Even CGI Tarkin is a more impressive villain than Krennic.
Both of Disney's SW films so far have played into fan service. And that's not stopping anytime soon. The whole concept of a young Han Solo film is pure fan service.
What will separate them is the difference in tone and even sub-genre of each film. Like R1 was a much darker toned War film, whereas Solo will likely be a heist film/comedy. And TFA was... urmmm... a classic rehash??