Originally posted by Surtur
Serious question: after all that has happened do you think an adult who still wants to go to NK is mentally sound?Otto Warmbier went there alive and came back a vegetable, then died. They did that to him over stealing a banner.
Could be said about many a dangerous activity people go into.
I'm not going to NK and I'd advise others not to, but physically stopping consenting adults on going? Nah, it's their choice; they know the risk.
Originally posted by RobtardI agree on principle, but I kinda view it in the same vein as seatbelt laws.
While I don't think an American citizen should travel to NK as it's a dictatorship with nigh-hostile relations with America, I don't think the US should be banning its adult citizens from travelling, they know the risk beforehand, they have to sign wavers.
Originally posted by cdtm
Yes, but that side also includes the likes of h1b exploitation
The United States is not graduating enough specialists like doctors and engineers to meet demand. If it wants to remain globally competitive, it needs to fill the positions with qualified people from elsewhere. Those are exactly the sort of immigrants people should want.
Otto Warmbier's family rebukes Trump, says Kim Jong Un is responsible for son's death
The family of Otto Warmbier rebuked President Donald Trump on Friday for siding with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who denied knowledge of their son's maltreatment during his imprisonment.
"We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuses or lavish praise can change that. Thank you," Fred and Cindy Warmbier, Otto's parents, said in a statement provided to CNN.
After a second summit with Kim in Vietnam, President Trump said Thursday he does not hold the North Korean dictator responsible for Warmbier's death.
"He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word," Trump said during a news conference, also claiming Kim "felt very badly. But he knew the case very well, but he knew it later."
Otto Warmbier was a University of Virginia student when he was detained in January 2016 during a brief sightseeing tour of the reclusive state. He was held captive by the North Korean regime for over a year, before being released back to the US in June 2017. Then 22 years old, Warmbier returned home to Ohio in a vegetative state -- blind, deaf, and having sustained severe brain damage from his time in detention. He died on June 19, 2017, days after the Trump administration had secured his return. -snip
It's almost like Trump loves to side with dictators. Which is odd as he previously condemned Kim for Otto's death and congratulated himself in getting NK to release Otto after he was left in a vegetative state and died shortly after.
Originally posted by Robtard
Otto Warmbier's family rebukes Trump, says Kim Jong Un is responsible for son's deathThe family of Otto Warmbier rebuked President Donald Trump on Friday for siding with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un, who denied knowledge of their son's maltreatment during his imprisonment.
"We have been respectful during this summit process. Now we must speak out. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for the death of our son Otto. Kim and his evil regime are responsible for unimaginable cruelty and inhumanity. No excuses or lavish praise can change that. Thank you," Fred and Cindy Warmbier, Otto's parents, said in a statement provided to CNN.
After a second summit with Kim in Vietnam, President Trump said Thursday he does not hold the North Korean dictator responsible for Warmbier's death.
"He tells me that he didn't know about it and I will take him at his word," Trump said during a news conference, also claiming Kim "felt very badly. But he knew the case very well, but he knew it later."
Otto Warmbier was a University of Virginia student when he was detained in January 2016 during a brief sightseeing tour of the reclusive state. He was held captive by the North Korean regime for over a year, before being released back to the US in June 2017. Then 22 years old, Warmbier returned home to Ohio in a vegetative state -- blind, deaf, and having sustained severe brain damage from his time in detention. He died on June 19, 2017, days after the Trump administration had secured his return. -snip
It's almost like Trump loves to side with dictators. Which is odd as he previously condemned Kim for Otto's death and congratulated himself in getting NK to release Otto after he was left in a vegetative state and died shortly after.
I don't think Trump loves doing this. I think Trump does it because he thinks it will make them more willing to work with him.
Originally posted by Robtard
So more excuses like in Helsinki when Trump threw America under the rug to make Putin look good. Not surprised at all at this point; it's expected.
If you wanna ignore Trump's personality you go on and do so, I'm just pointing out how Trump is. He thinks this stuff works on others because it works on him.
Originally posted by Robtard
So more excuses like in Helsinki when Trump threw America under the rug to make Putin look good. Not surprised at all at this point; it's expected.
No offense, Rob, but you're saying he's making excuses, and yet you offer no counterargument on what Trump should have done, because you know that if Trump decided "Screw peace! They killed our citizen! Let's attack them!" then it would be a geopolitical cluster**** that would affect the world on a massive scale.
Let's be honest. Regardless of who was elected, North Korea was going to get nukes, and the incumbent POTUS would be forced to negotiate peace talks. I'm sure that Trump would like to have Kim assassinated, but he knows that the situation is much more complex than that. The North Korean totalitarian regime is extremely bureaucratic in it's methods of control. Honestly, Trump dealing with the North Koreans is actually a good thing, as it helps delegitimize Anti-American sentiment in the region. I mean let's be honest, North Korea is essentially a totalitarian nuclear-armed version of Sentinel Island, so any step towards diplomacy can be viewed as a positive.
Again, I hate to be mean Rob, but it seems like you're suffering from TDS. There's nothing wrong with this except for the fact that Trump is doing it.
As far as Otto Warmbier is concerned, I feel like his family was exploited by Trump which was scummy but not unexpected of Trump, but on the other hand, he was a complete arrogant dumbass for going into territory he knew was hostile and attempting to disrespect them by stealing their property. Stealing a flag shouldn't warrant death, but an American stealing a North Korean flag is the absolute epitome of tempting fate, and I'm sorry, but I don't sympathize with him.
-Trump condemns Kim for the death
-Takes credit for getting the body back (rightfully so here)
-Now reverses himself on Kim
That's okay, why?
How about hold Kim accountable for his actions while still pursuing peace talks? No one has to go to war over some idiot who didn't listen to the warnings. Not that torture which lead to death should have been his punishment in the first place.
Originally posted by Robtard
-Trump condemns Kim for the death
-Takes credit for getting the body back (rightfully so here)
-Now reverses himself on KimThat's okay, why?
How about hold Kim accountable for his actions while still pursuing peace talks? No one has to go to war over some idiot who didn't listen to the warnings. Not that torture which lead to death should have been his punishment in the first place.
Rob, I don't think you understand. Kim Jong Un is INSANE. He is a guy who was raised by his INSANE dad to be a totalitarian psychopath who will kill his own family members for the slightest attempt at disobedience. He will never accept accountability, and will view any question of his government's involvement as an outright condemnation of the North Korean government itself, therefore continuing if not increasing hostility in the region.
Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to work with dictators to maintain geopolitical stability. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain any kind of global standing.
Originally posted by Lestov16Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to install dictators to exploit their country's resources. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain global domination
Fixed that for you
Originally posted by Lestov16
Rob, I don't think you understand. Kim Jong Un is INSANE. He is a guy who was raised by his INSANE dad to be a totalitarian psychopath who will kill his own family members for the slightest attempt at disobedience. He will never accept accountability, and will view any question of his government's involvement as an outright condemnation of the North Korean government itself, therefore continuing if not increasing hostility in the region.Look, dude. Quite simply, the world is huge and full of various cultures that have various beefs with each other and various levels of brutality that they are willing to inflict. Every POTUS has to work with dictators to maintain geopolitical stability. It sucks and it is against American secular humanist values but it is necessary if the US is to maintain any kind of global standing.
Disagree. Kim's a POS, but you still hold Kim accountable while moving forward. If anything, you use that murder (cos that's what it was) as bargaining chip so at least maybe something positive will come of it.
But all in all, it's futile, despite Trump previously declaring that NK is no longer a nuclear threat, NK isn't going to abandon its nukes; as it's how Kim stays in control and power. They might scale back a bit if they're offered something worthwhile, but the best you can hope for is to have an uneasy truce with a nuclear capable NK.
Now if America were to remove Kim and his regime and those loyal to him and put someone in power that's pro America, that's different, but we're talking about either war or assassination/subversion games.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
I agree with Surtur on the reason behind Trump doing that, but still this is something that leaves me extremely displeased with Trump.
Bingo, it's not like this is okay. It's just I don't think Trump actually loves dictators.
Remember: he also essentially threatened NK in the past(via twitter, of course)
Originally posted by Surtur
Bingo, it's not like this is okay. It's just I don't think Trump actually loves dictators.Remember: he also essentially threatened NK in the past(via twitter, of course)
I think he's drawn to the same personality type as he is himself. That just happens to be the Kim Jongs and the Putins of this world. He has nothing in common with leaders of other NATO countries.