Abeloth is a terrible fighter but defeating her is far from easy.
Valkorion can down some avatars of Abeloth in a prolonged confrontation but risks loosing a few of his own in the process. Not sure how the two can stop each other in the disembodied form.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth tentacle rapes him and gets a new avatar body.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth's not in a heavily weakened or wounded Avatar body, she doesn't have any personal stake in her fight with Valkorion (ie. wanting him to become part of her family), and Valkorion has no assistance.
Luke Skywalker managed to defeat an avatar of Abeloth [1 on 1] earlier, using the environment to his advantage. However, Abeloth brought another avatar to overwhelm the Jedi Master soon after.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Valkorion gets absolutely and utterly stomped.
1. Valkorion have superior showings than Abeloth.
2. Valkorion can acquire countless avatars just like Abeloth.
3. Valkorion is most potent in disembodied form.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Abeloth conjured her strongest avatar to contend with the duo of Luke Skywalker and Darth Krayt. This confrontation took place in the realm of Abeloth on top of everything.FACT: powerful Jedi and Sith were able to withstand her powers.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Wishful thinking.Valkorion have superior showings than Abeloth.
Valkorion can acquire countless avatars just like Abeloth.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
FACT: Luke and Krayt had aid from a Skywalker in Oneness and Vestara Khai amped by the Font of Power, as well as another Jedi.
Abeloth's actions aren't much different from those of Sel Makor; creating and using several avatars to overwhelm opposition. With this strategy, the entity can prolong confrontation and get the opportunity to acquire new avatars in the process.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
FACT: Abeloth had just recently been weakened by the loss of an avatar body, and Abeloth had a particularly vulnerable avatar body that was barely substantiated whose death weakened her.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Valkorion doesn't have shit on dominating Luke Skywalker in a state of oneness.
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?
Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?
Abeloth had created a supply of vessels (for herself to use) but she was using them one at a time.
Luke Skywalker contended with two avatars of Abeloth on separate occassions with following outcomes:
1. Abeloth puts Luke on a choke-hold but the Jedi Master manages to overwhelm this avatar by using the environment to his advantage. Luke suffers some injuries as well.
Intermission (Luke proceeds to fight nearby Sith)
2. Abeloth brings another avatar and puts the injured (and demoralized) Luke on the choke-hold again; this time, Luke lacks the strength to withstand her choke-hold for long and makes a desperate attempt to invoke the state of oneness but is prevented from doing so and subdued.
The aforementioned confrontations took place in a cave where a lava pit was present and the Sith were attempting to take advantage of the situation; so there was less room for Luke Skywalker to maneuver.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Fate of the Jedi Vortex? The One where Luke went into a state of Oneness while fighting a weakened Avatar body and Abeloth completely dominated him even then?Said weakened Avatar body not being comparable to OG body Abeloth who fought the Son and Daughter, or planet assimilating Abeloth who had progressed far beyond the point she was at in FOTJ.
This.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
You have memory problems, my friend. I shall refresh it.Abeloth had created a supply of vessels (for herself to use) but she was using them one at a time.
Luke Skywalker contended with two avatars of Abeloth on separate occassions with following outcomes:
1. Abeloth puts Luke on a choke-hold but the Jedi Master manages to overwhelm this avatar by using the environment to his advantage. Luke suffers some injuries as well.
Intermission (Luke proceeds to fight nearby Sith)
2. Abeloth brings another avatar and puts the injured (and demoralized) Luke on the choke-hold again; this time, Luke lacks the strength to withstand her choke-hold for long and attempts to invoke the state of oneness but is prevented from doing so and subdued.
The aforementioned confrontations took place in a cave where a lava pit was present and the Sith were attempting to take advantage of the situation; so there was less room for Luke Skywalker to maneuver.
Don't pretend Luke was somehow the one disadvantaged by circumstance in that instance.
Also don't insult me and accuse me of lying for my recollection of events in a novel when your recollection you are so pompously and arrogantly professing to be correct is inaccurate. It just makes you come off as an ignorant douche, and just makes you look like even more of a dumbass when someone proves you wrong.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Ummm it was her first Avatar body that overwhelmed Luke in a state of Oneness.
As far as the oneness claim is concerned; Luke Skywalker called upon the Force in similar manner as Revan against Vitiate long ago; difference in both scenarios is that Luke was experiencing an unusually strong physical choke-hold while Revan was experiencing a powerful telepathic assault.
Luke responded by pulling a heavy beam towards the position of the avatar (Akanah), using it to crush it.
Revan responded by unleashing a powerful Force-wave, sending Vitiate packing across the hall.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
And also, this was right after Abeloth got a leg and arm chopped off, was submerged in a pool of lava, was stabbed, had three of her ribs broken, and had lava thrown all over her back, and she was simultaneously maintaining an illusory hold over several Sith.
Soon after, Luke did all he could to destroy the avatar (Akanah) and he was successful. However, the Jedi Master suffered some injures in the process.
Of-course, if a being as powerful as Abeloth puts another Force-user in a choke-hold than she is more likely to prevail.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Don't pretend Luke was somehow the one disadvantaged by circumstance in that instance.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Also don't insult me and accuse me of lying for my recollection of events in a novel when your recollection you are so pompously and arrogantly professing to be correct is inaccurate. It just makes you come off as an ignorant douche, and just makes you look like even more of a dumbass when someone proves you wrong.
I am pointing out a fact that Abeloth was at the height of her power during the events of Vortex and Luke still managed to defeat one of her avatars. Your recollection of events is far from perfect and agenda-filled.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
The first avatar (Akanah) failed to subdue Luke Skywalker, period.As far as the oneness claim is concerned; Luke Skywalker called upon the Force in similar manner as Revan against Vitiate long ago; difference in both scenarios is that Luke was experiencing an unusually strong physical choke-hold while Revan was experiencing a powerful telepathic assault.
Luke responded by pulling a heavy beam towards the position of the avatar (Akanah), using it to crush it.
Revan responded by unleashing a powerful Force-wave, sending Vitiate packing across the hall.
Not to mention, Luke states at one point that Abeloth's power is almost beyond his comprehension and another time that she's using the Force with far greater strength than he ever did, which includes the times he's been in oneness, the time Leia joined her and the unborn Anakin's power with him to overwhelm DE Sidious, the time he was in proximity to the kaibur crystal, etc.
Abeloth being substantially more powerful than Luke is no question it's a fact.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Luke initially assaulted the avatar (Akanah) with his Lightsaber (injuring it) and than Force-pushed this avatar into the nearby pit of lava. However, a few Sith diverted Luke's attention towards them and Abeloth took advantage of the situation; the avatar (Akanah) somehow managed to escape the pit of lava and caught Luke by surprise, putting him in a choke-hold.Soon after, Luke did all he could to destroy the avatar (Akanah) and he was successful. However, the Jedi Master suffered some injures in the process.
Of-course, if a being as powerful as Abeloth puts another Force-user in a choke-hold than she is more likely to prevail.
Luke was doing just fine until the Sith grabbed his attention and Abeloth managed to take advantage of this situation.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Easy there. My intention was not to insult you.I am pointing out a fact that Abeloth was at the height of her power during the events of Vortex and Luke still managed to defeat one of her avatars. Your recollection of events is far from perfect and agenda-filled.
You seem to have forgotten earlier in the series when Abeloth was handling Luke with substantial help just fine in Allies.
Or in Apocalypse when she has him on his ass almost immediately after their fight in the Jedi temple began.
Vortex absolutely is not Abeloth's peak in power. She's better in apocalypse and in her only 1v1 with Luke in apocalypse she utterly stomped him. In Vortex she was weakened from the loss of her body on her planet, and certainly not that soon after her escape from the maw. The longer Abeloth is out of her prison the further and further she progresses, and she had not progressed to nearly the point in FOTJ that she had in past escapes, where she had assimilated entire planets into her being and singlehandedly wiped out various civilizations.
When Luke was in Oneness and Abeloth was in a heavily wounded body, she physically overpowered him and slammed him into the ground. In Allies when her powers were being stifled by the combined efforts of hundreds of Sith at once, Abeloth ragdolled Luke and several other Sith. When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.
And none of this is at Abeloth's peak, and none of this is within the range of Valkorion's capabilities.