Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yah only DE Palpatine has that kind of power. 🙂
Moreover, Palpatine had limitation in the aspect of conjuring and controlling the Force Storm (Wormhole) power.
1. Stop calling it "Force Storm(Wormhole)." We know what you're talking about and it just becomes jarring to read after you repeat the phrase five or six times.
2. Yes, yes it can.
2. No, he didn't. He could conjure them at will and could safely move Luke across the galaxy with them, and even if he couldn't, he doesn't need to control it to wreck a planet.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
1. Stop calling it "Force Storm(Wormhole)." We know what you're talking about and it just becomes jarring to read after you repeat the phrase five or six times.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
2. Yes, yes it can.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
2. No, he didn't. He could conjure them at will and could safely move Luke across the galaxy with them, and even if he couldn't, he doesn't need to control it to wreck a planet.
Yes, a Wormhole can devastate a region, depending upon the circumstances. But to bust a planet, the wormhole have to be stupendously big.
Originally posted by S_W_LeGenDIt's Luke's opinion.
Form Storm is essentially a wormhole. It can be utilized for destructive purposes but it is not like a black-hole.Yes, a Wormhole can devastate a region, depending upon the circumstances. But to bust a planet, the wormhole have to be stupendously big.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Luke actually managed enough room to catch his breath right before going into oneness. And with Oneness, Luke was pulling himself and Abeloth up, then Abeloth overpowered him regardless. Luke was trying to get himself enough space to fight by pulling them upwards, the beam falling on Abeloth wasn't exactly intentional on Luke's part.
He continued to reach with the Force, now going higher toward the ceiling vault, and caught hold of one of the long crossbeams that held the roof in place. Luke pulled, trying to open a little space so he could gain his feet and fight, and they both began to rise.
Abeloth pulled in the opposite direction, and they dropped back to the floor.
Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
After the above, Luke called upon the Force on a greater level (oneness like event; similar to Revan's) and tore a long crossbeam from its foundation. And the end-result:
Then a two-meter length of beam came plummeting out of the darkness and caught Abeloth across the back. The impact compressed his chest until he thought it would split. Then her leg went slack, her stump slipped from Luke's throat, and she fell motionless. Her face pressed against his, cheek-to-cheek.
Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
The crossbeam falling on the avatar (Akanah) was actually intentional on Luke's part. It was located right above the position of the avatar.
Your point is moot.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Not to mention, Luke states at one point that Abeloth's power is almost beyond his comprehension and another time that she's using the Force with far greater strength than he ever did, which includes the times he's been in oneness, the time Leia joined her and the unborn Anakin's power with him to overwhelm DE Sidious, the time he was in proximity to the kaibur crystal, etc.Abeloth being substantially more powerful than Luke is no question it's a fact.
Luke could take down an avatar or two under the right circumstances but could not afford to defeat Abeloth [1 on 1] in a real-time situation due to her capabilities. Real-time situation is the key term.
The following revelation says it all:
And yet, the woman Luke had just slain had also been Abeloth. There could be no other explanation for the power she had wielded. They were both Abeloth.
Luke began to loose heart. He did not think he had the strength to kill her
... again. And if he was lucky enough to succeed, how many times would she return? Not wanting to be trapped near the stage pit, he limped toward the front of the hall.
"How many bodies do you have?" He asked.
"More than you can kill." The Callista-eyes shone, perhaps in delight at the fear she was causing Luke, and she began to advance. "I promise you that."
Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
There is also this revelation:
Abeloth's effort to set them against each other was a good sign, suggesting she lacked strength to battle them outright. Unfortunately, it was also a good tactic, as Luke could not permit any Sith to know Allana's true identity and leave the hall alive.
Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Vortex
The revelation implies that Abeloth could not defeat Luke and Taalon together in a confrontation, with a single avatar at the least.
The word power does not just translates to 'raw power' in a strict sense, it has a greater meaning. Abeloth was substantially more powerful then any Jedi in the sense that she had a virtually endless supply of vessels at her disposal (and) raw power greater then that of any Jedi as well. Luke could not hope to defeat Abeloth in a prolonged confrontation and/or real-time situation because he did not possess similar capabilities.
Focus on the context, my friend.
Now, replace Abeloth with Valkorion and Luke will find himself in the same boat again. Luke might be capable of tackling an avatar of Valkorion under the right circumstances [1 on 1] but he cannot defeat Valkorion in a real-time situation.
+
Valkorion is also substantially more powerful than any Jedi and/or Sith by virtue of his capabilities and raw power. Following statements:
"The Dread Masters changed Oricon. Even their combined power is insignificant compared to the Emperor."
&
"...The Emperor will prove far too powerful for Revan, or anyone else." (Darth Marr)
- make absolute sense, right? Yes, they do. Full stop.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You do realize Abeloth was trying to seduce Luke before she fell into the lava right? And not to mention Abeloth was simultaneously mindraping all of the Sith present with the exception of Taalon and Vestara.
Additionally;
Where it is stated that Abeloth was multi-tasking during her confrontations with Luke? Sarasu Taalon and Vestara were exceptions now?
Keep up the good work. All the hype that you have created about Abeloth, will evaporate in this debate. I'll make sure of it.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Abeloth was certainly not at the height of her power during the events of Vortex.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
You seem to have forgotten earlier in the series when Abeloth was handling Luke with substantial help just fine in Allies.
Do keep in mind Revan's signature Force-wave as well; the one that sent 8 individuals packing across the arena simultaneously including powerhouses Satele Shan and Darth Marr. And Valkorion >>
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Or in Apocalypse when she has him on his ass almost immediately after their fight in the Jedi temple began.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Vortex absolutely is not Abeloth's peak in power. She's better in apocalypse
Originally posted by Emperordmb
and in her only 1v1 with Luke in apocalypse she utterly stomped him.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
In Vortex she was weakened from the loss of her body on her planet, and certainly not that soon after her escape from the maw.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
The longer Abeloth is out of her prison the further and further she progresses, and she had not progressed to nearly the point in FOTJ that she had in past escapes, where she had assimilated entire planets into her being and singlehandedly wiped out various civilizations.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Luke was in Oneness and Abeloth was in a heavily wounded body, she physically overpowered him and slammed him into the ground.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
In Allies when her powers were being stifled by the combined efforts of hundreds of Sith at once, Abeloth ragdolled Luke and several other Sith.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.[QUOTE=15659269]Originally posted by Emperordmb
And none of this is at Abeloth's peak, and none of this is within the range of Valkorion's capabilities.
Abeloth was not consistently weakened; she suffered a setback from her confrontations in Vortex but managed to recover afterwards. However, she miscalculated her chances during the events of Apocalypse by adopting the strategy of multi-tasking:
The theory was that Abeloth had only a single Force presence, shared by her avatars, so harming any of her avatars would make it easier to defeat all of them. Assuming that the shadow-gouls were being animated by Abeloth - and Saba saw no other possibility - then they were growing weaker because Luke was succeeding in the Maw.
Taken from Fate of the Jedi: Apocalypse
Using a single avatar at a time, was safer approach. Multi-tasking during a prolonged confrontation led to her downfall.
As far as Valkorion is concerned, he holds his own in the domain of feats and accomplishments. He clearly matches Abeloth in some areas and is even better then her in some.
Originally posted by Emperordmb
When Abeloth had just suffered the loss of one avatar, she floored Luke with a single telekinetic strike when he charged her. When they encountered each other in the temple, Abeloth beat him almost immediately.