Darth Jadus & SoD Maul vs Barsen'thor & Count Dooku

Started by FreshestSlice4 pages

Originally posted by ILS
When was that said?

I figured by SoD they had worked out Maul was the apprentice since he was presumed dead but shit was still going on, the Force was still being clouded.


By SoD they thought Dooku was the master. No idea what Stark is implying.

Nox lolstomped Thanaton, sure, but 'Thor has decidedly better TK feats, (blowing a hole through a massive blast door, throwing an enormous chunk of metal hundreds of yards, blasting through a Rakatan vault door, bashing the First Son against a wall, etc,) and defeating Vivicar/The First Son are as if not more impressive than Nox's showings.

Originally posted by ILS
When was that said?

Ummmmmm TPM?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
By SoD they thought Dooku was the master. No idea what Stark is implying.
Pretty sure the first and last time Dooku is implied to be the Master is in SoD, because he has seemingly taken on Maul - a lesser Sith - as his apprentice.

Don't recall any indication before that that Dooku is the Sith Master, at least not in Canon. If anything, they suspected otherwise, that the Sith Master had infiltrated the upper echelons of the Senate. It was certainly never implied that the death of Count Dooku put an end to the Sith threat.

Regardless this kinda detracts from the point, that Windu believed Maul to be Dooku's disciple, ergo his inferior.

Master =/= Superior 😮‍💨

It does for Sith 🙂

Lumiya?

She's more of an accomplice than a downright master.

Originally posted by SunRazer
It does for Sith 🙂
dat RoT tho

According to RoT, when the apprentice surpasses the master, they're supposed to kill the master. So while a character is a Master of another, they're technically still more powerful.

I think in pretty much all hierarchies, master > apprentice.

That's just kinda what the terms mean. 😬

Right, and by Sith doctrine, a Master has to be more powerful than their apprentice. Otherwise, they're no longer fit to be a Master. There's very few exceptions to that.

And Dooku was a very old master indeed. It's up in the air how worthy he was to remain in that position.

This is just for shits and gigs though. Windu correctly pointing out that an 80 year old Dooku could be 30-something Darth Maul's Sith mentor is a pretty shallow case for Dooku > Maul in the first place. It would even make sense to me if I didn't know better.

True, the writer's clear statement that Dooku > Maul and the various feats and accolades that support it definitely make a much stronger case for the Count being superior. 👆

The same writer claimed Maul would defeat Dooku for a majority if they were to fight. Sorry to shit in your cereal there, Beni. 😉

ILS has worked wonders with Maul and it pleases me. But Maul definitely ain't > Dooku.

And it's that mindset that prevents much of the possibly intelligent debate surrounding Maul and Dooku, Tempy-poo. Guys like Beni get so attached to the idea of Dooku > Maul that when faced with the possibility of it not being so, he resorts to desperation tactics like Barlow's contradictory commentary. I'm all for Dooku > Maul if and when the right argument comes along for it.

When I see anything suggesting Maul can replicate Dooku's duel with Yoda I'll be inclined to admit he's on Dooku's level.

When I see anything suggesting Dooku can replicate Maul's salvo with Sheev at the end of their duel I'll admit Dooku is on his.

But seriously, my general approach to that argument is that while Dooku lasted longer he did less in the given time than Maul with Sheev (kicked that old man's torso), and while Dooku ended his fight out of necessity (his reserves were flagging and Yoda was clearly handling him), Maul's was cut short because he lost a bout of pure strength. I view both as apprentices giving their masters shit before being pointed out as clear inferiors.

Maul was also pissed as **** from having his brother murdered right in front of him for that and all he managed was a kick while Sidious was toying with him. He was in the best condition he could be whereas Dooku had just dueled Anakin and Obi-Wan back to back and had a Force contest with Yoda. It was also directly stated that Sidious "never wavered from his position of superiority" so it's not like that kick was even a big deal in any way.

Dooku was able to keep up with Yoda to an extent and legit duel him whereas Sidious was pissing around with Maul. In the book it's made clear that when Sidious got serious Maul couldn't possibly keep up.