Mace Windu + Revan vs Galen Marek + Darth Bane

Originally posted by Syndicate
Your evidence being?

...

Are you trying to say Talzin can imbue non force sensitive beings with enough power to be on or above Dooku's level?

I don't really see it. Galen ragdolls Sidious in a moment of anger but then relents. He then goes on to stalemate Sidious briefly before being overwhelmed likely because he had just fought through armies of Imperials and Vader and thus his force reserves were depleted. In regards to potential Sidious believe he could have been his successor and thus his superior.

What the hell was this video supposed to prove?

She's above Dooku, and Savage was able to do that Dooku, so either Dookus force wall wasn't concentrated to Savage, or Savage had more raw power than Dooku and that's when it showed up. I beleive Sidious said equal, never superior. The only one he ever gave that title to was Anakin. Again with the quote and the video, it only goes to show that Galen is no match for the emperor, in force raw power or actaul power, and thus he could never ever ragdoll the emperor, even with anger, cause all of that was to get to that level of power, not beyond. Palptine wasn't putting u a proper defense since he got ragdolled by Galen.

I find the former to be more likely given how he had been handling Savage before and the fact that he was occupied in a duel with Ventress. Also while Talzin is above Dooku it doesn't mean she can imbue people to be above Dooku in power with her own... He said successor in the cutscene of the DLC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgdY9ZaDS8Q 9:52.

He's stating he could have rested the title away from Sidious. This is insinuating that he could have been => then Sidious. Again you have no evidence of these claims.

Keep in mind Talzin had a coven helping her buff up Savage.

Also it's pretty established that in terms of power, Dooku is Talzin's *****.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Keep in mind Talzin had a coven helping her buff up Savage.

Also it's pretty established that in terms of power, Dooku is Talzin's *****.

Fair enough all I'm saying is that if the nightsisters could be pumping out Dooku+ level force users they would have been doing so...

True, plus Savage had his own innate potential as well.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
True, plus Savage had his own innate potential as well.

Yep. People tend to forget that non force sensitives still have midichlorians.

Savage wasn't non-force sensitive. The nightbrothers are almost by definition Force users.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Savage wasn't non-force sensitive. The nightbrothers are almost by definition Force users.

Are they? Had no idea.

Yeah. You could see Savage sense something during the second test, and as the counterpart order to nightsisters they also wield the Force.

Plus, in both canon and legends Savage's mother is force sensitive, and in legends the Book of Sith confirms his force sensitivity.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
Yeah. You could see Savage sense something during the second test, and as the counterpart order to nightsisters they also wield the Force.

Plus, in both canon and legends Savage's mother is force sensitive, and in legends the Book of Sith confirms his force sensitivity.

Awesome. I really to get the Book of Sith.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Awesome. I really to get the Book of Sith.

It's ****ing amazing.

Of course as someone whose 3 favorite Sith are in it (Bane, Plagueis, Sidious) and who loves the Nightsister mythology (they worship the Ones for ****s sake), I may be a bit partial towards it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
YOU ABSOLUTELY SHOULD

It's ****ing amazing.

Of course as someone whose 3 favorite Sith are in it (Bane, Plagueis, Sidious) and who loves the Nightsister mythology (they worship the Ones for ****s sake), I may be a bit partial towards it.

THEY WORSHIP THE ONES?! Is there a link to a free copy online?

I'll send it to ya on CV

Thanks buddy. 🙂

Originally posted by Syndicate
I find the former to be more likely given how he had been handling Savage before and the fact that he was occupied in a duel with Ventress. Also while Talzin is above Dooku it doesn't mean she can imbue people to be above Dooku in power with her own... He said successor in the cutscene of the DLC.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgdY9ZaDS8Q 9:52.

He's stating he could have rested the title away from Sidious. This is insinuating that he could have been => then Sidious. Again you have no evidence of these claims.

I would think that she could make people with more raw power through one of her nightsister rituals, and given how powerful she is herself, I don't see any reason to why anyone she puts that mush effort into helping someone like how she did for ventress, I don't see why they wouldn't be as strong as Dooku if not stronger in terms of raw power. In that he says equal as well. Just becuase your a successor, doesn't mean superior, especially when the very next word was EQUAL.

So in that video it basically says what i said. Sidious and Galen at full potential would have been equals, not Galen being more powerful than Palaptine, so again, I'm not seeing how him being able to ragdoll Sidious was a Sidious at full strength. So with that being said, how could someone who would be equal be able to ragdoll that person(palpatine). Then you take into consideration that was never Galen having met his full potential, so again the notion he actaully ragdolled a defending Sidious is far fetched if it impossible to beleive.

1. There equal, and Galen hasn't even gotten to that point yet, he is still inferior to Sidious as by that quote I sent you.

2. Galen's attacks were still being deflected by Kota in the start, and I think Vader had some resistance in the start of their fight, I may be mistaken, and he failed to kill Sidious once he engaged in the Lightning duel with him.

3. Feat wise, Sidious doesn't have as much exposure in terms of his TK, but we defintlly know its most likely the best of the time, given the statement that Vader was 80% of Sidious meaning that anything Vader could do, Sidious could do and whatever 20% more is. So with that we can see that Sidious is at this point still more powerful, in every way, and so again how would he be ragdolled by someone who is weaker than him?

Originally posted by Fated Xtasy
😬

No, just no.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
I would think that she could make people with more raw power through one of her nightsister rituals, and given how powerful she is herself, I don't see any reason to why anyone she puts that mush effort into helping someone like how she did for ventress, I don't see why they wouldn't be as strong as Dooku if not stronger in terms of raw power. In that he says equal as well. Just becuase your a successor, doesn't mean superior, especially when the very next word was EQUAL.

So in that video it basically says what i said. Sidious and Galen at full potential would have been equals, not Galen being more powerful than Palaptine, so again, I'm not seeing how him being able to ragdoll Sidious was a Sidious at full strength. So with that being said, how could someone who would be equal be able to ragdoll that person(palpatine). Then you take into consideration that was never Galen having met his full potential, so again the notion he actaully ragdolled a defending Sidious is far fetched if it impossible to beleive.

1. There equal, and Galen hasn't even gotten to that point yet, he is still inferior to Sidious as by that quote I sent you.

2. Galen's attacks were still being deflected by Kota in the start, and I think Vader had some resistance in the start of their fight, I may be mistaken, and he failed to kill Sidious once he engaged in the Lightning duel with him.

3. Feat wise, Sidious doesn't have as much exposure in terms of his TK, but we defintlly know its most likely the best of the time, given the statement that Vader was 80% of Sidious meaning that anything Vader could do, Sidious could do and whatever 20% more is. So with that we can see that Sidious is at this point still more powerful, in every way, and so again how would he be ragdolled by someone who is weaker than him?

Read the above. If she was capable of accomplishing such why would she have created an army of Dooku level force sensitives? Personally I think if the Emperor is saying Galen could have defeated him that implies superior power and his next words seem to be referring more to rank and station then anything else. I.E. He'd be Sidious's equal as the next ruler of the Galaxy.

Read the above. Maybe because Galen was drawing on powerful emotions as is shown in the scans? How was Yoda who was less powerful then Sidious able to push him? Or Savage who was less powerful then Dooku and Ventress able to force choke them? Or Shaak Ti who was less powerful then Galen able to push him? It's because you don't need to be more powerful or equally powerful to affect another force user with attacks. Only comparable. We don't know how close Galen was to reaching his potential actually.

He could have been his successor suggesting superiority, we don't know how far away from that point Galen was and none of what you have posted proves the feat is illegitimate.

At the start though remember Rahm was a powerful force user. True enough he wasn't able to outright ragdoll Vader at the start. Though it should be noted in both these circumstances he had just fought through an army to get to his opponents. True enough though Yoda failed to win that lightning lock himself and broke it off before retreating. Galen didn't have that option being on an enemy space station and attempting to buy time for his friend's to escape. There is also the matter of his force reserves being depleted from fighting through armies and then Darth Vader before facing the Emperor.

As I've said I don't care about statements though there is a statement that suggests Sidious could take apart the Imperial Palace which is definitely very impressive. Well to be honest it was really Galen sending out a blast that slammed Sidious into the ceiling. A number of factors could have played into that including him drawing on strong emotions as I mention before. We know Galen is approaching his level and we know that it's possible for force users who are of comparative power to employ successful force attacks against their opponents as we saw in the examples I mentioned.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Read the above. If she was capable of accomplishing such why would she have created an army of Dooku level force sensitives? Personally I think if the Emperor is saying Galen could have defeated him that implies superior power and his next words seem to be referring more to rank and station then anything else. I.E. He'd be Sidious's equal as the next ruler of the Galaxy.

Read the above. Maybe because Galen was drawing on powerful emotions as is shown in the scans? How was Yoda who was less powerful then Sidious able to push him? Or Savage who was less powerful then Dooku and Ventress able to force choke them? Or Shaak Ti who was less powerful then Galen able to push him? It's because you don't need to be more powerful or equally powerful to affect another force user with attacks. Only comparable. We don't know how close Galen was to reaching his potential actually.

He could have been his successor suggesting superiority, we don't know how far away from that point Galen was and none of what you have posted proves the feat is illegitimate.

At the start though remember Rahm was a powerful force user. True enough he wasn't able to outright ragdoll Vader at the start. Though it should be noted in both these circumstances he had just fought through an army to get to his opponents. True enough though Yoda failed to win that lightning lock himself and broke it off before retreating. Galen didn't have that option being on an enemy space station and attempting to buy time for his friend's to escape. There is also the matter of his force reserves being depleted from fighting through armies and then Darth Vader before facing the Emperor.

As I've said I don't care about statements though there is a statement that suggests Sidious could take apart the Imperial Palace which is definitely very impressive. Well to be honest it was really Galen sending out a blast that slammed Sidious into the ceiling. A number of factors could have played into that including him drawing on strong emotions as I mention before. We know Galen is approaching his level and we know that it's possible for force users who are of comparative power to employ successful force attacks against their opponents as we saw in the examples I mentioned.

Becuase when she created that army, she actaully didn't. It was Old Daka who made it with an ancient ritual that was just meant to,resurrect dead nightsisters, so I'm not seeing how they could,have been imbued with that power. Savage on the other hand his creation was under no immediate threat like they were when Grevious attacked, she herself had a personal hand in making Savage, she put all of,her magic into amount him as powerful as she did, it's just a ll circumstance really. Again, unless I missed something he never ever even suggest this. He says he could have been his EQUAL, he never says supeior, so you're really putting words into Sidious' mouth which is his job 😂 Sidious says Equal, so I take that equal as in everything, not superior in any since.

Uhh Sidious was overconfident as hell. We have already discussed Savage situation. Maybe due to Shaak to being on a terrain that highly favored her and didn't she injure him with the saber thus his force reserves would be more geared to pain tolerance than actaully force defenses and she was able to produce Kinatite which is Ana vilify even Vader needed to be near a dark side artifact to do, so I think the terai not favored Ti more than Galen by a very large quantity. So I think this answers your questions here. It's common sense. If I'm more powerful and I have my full defenses up, there is no any you can ragdoll me. I'm more powerful and my defenses are up and ready.

He says EQUAL. I would take that to mean in every regard. If he wanted to say more powerful he would have, just like he did with Anakin in ROTS. He didn't hold back in saying that, so if Galen were to be more powerful, Palpatine would have said so.

Hmm, all that endurance seems to have faded away hasn't it. While I'm not going to say he should have perfect endurance, some own who can go hours and hours and hours fighting Vader without tiring, and then you attempt to champion this in a win for him agaisnt Windu, I would beleive him fighting through all of that, and plus his great command of the force, his reserves shouldn't be nearly as depleted as you say. Why not use a force wave, or large amounts of Lightning which you claim is the best as I saw in the EU forum in who has best lightning, and use his nearly perfect saber style.

You don't care about statements why? It's backed up by substance. Him drawing on strong emotions as well as Palpatine not putting his defenses up. If they were to be equals right, Sidious would have stumbled at best, not slammed agaisnt a wall. So all of this is really leaning toward the idea, Sidious didn't have his defenses up. Read above for lesser force users delivering successful force attacks to each other.

Originally posted by EmperorSidious2
Becuase when she created that army, she actaully didn't. It was Old Daka who made it with an ancient ritual that was just meant to,resurrect dead nightsisters, so I'm not seeing how they could,have been imbued with that power. Savage on the other hand his creation was under no immediate threat like they were when Grevious attacked, she herself had a personal hand in making Savage, she put all of,her magic into amount him as powerful as she did, it's just a ll circumstance really. Again, unless I missed something he never ever even suggest this. He says he could have been his EQUAL, he never says supeior, so you're really putting words into Sidious' mouth which is his job 😂 Sidious says Equal, so I take that equal as in everything, not superior in any since.

Uhh Sidious was overconfident as hell. We have already discussed Savage situation. Maybe due to Shaak to being on a terrain that highly favored her and didn't she injure him with the saber thus his force reserves would be more geared to pain tolerance than actaully force defenses and she was able to produce Kinatite which is Ana vilify even Vader needed to be near a dark side artifact to do, so I think the terai not favored Ti more than Galen by a very large quantity. So I think this answers your questions here. It's common sense. If I'm more powerful and I have my full defenses up, there is no any you can ragdoll me. I'm more powerful and my defenses are up and ready.

He says EQUAL. I would take that to mean in every regard. If he wanted to say more powerful he would have, just like he did with Anakin in ROTS. He didn't hold back in saying that, so if Galen were to be more powerful, Palpatine would have said so.

Hmm, all that endurance seems to have faded away hasn't it. While I'm not going to say he should have perfect endurance, some own who can go hours and hours and hours fighting Vader without tiring, and then you attempt to champion this in a win for him agaisnt Windu, I would beleive him fighting through all of that, and plus his great command of the force, his reserves shouldn't be nearly as depleted as you say. Why not use a force wave, or large amounts of Lightning which you claim is the best as I saw in the EU forum in who has best lightning, and use his nearly perfect saber style.

You don't care about statements why? It's backed up by substance. Him drawing on strong emotions as well as Palpatine not putting his defenses up. If they were to be equals right, Sidious would have stumbled at best, not slammed agaisnt a wall. So all of this is really leaning toward the idea, Sidious didn't have his defenses up. Read above for lesser force users delivering successful force attacks to each other.

Eh? Did you think I was referring to that zombie army they raised during Grievous's assault? No, I was saying in general if they could make someone a Dooku level force user then why wouldn't they have been doing so for years before that point?

I guess it's just how you interpret it. I see Palpatine saying "You could have been my successor." As "You could have been superior to me in combat and therefore rested the mantle from me like every Rule of Two Sith has done before this point." And then his next statement "You could have been mt equal." As a reference to his title and position as Emperor of the Galactic Empire.

I'm hearing a lot of excuses but that's fine. I don't need to address them until I exhaust all my examples of which there are many. How was Vaylin not able to overcome her mother despite her superiority? How was the Hero of Tython able to resist and ragdoll Vitiate who even in the state he was in had much better feats then him? How was Galen able to land a telekinetic push on Abeloth who was stated to be a dozen times more powerful then him?

He said successor mate. That's pretty clear to me.

You're definitely correct he would still have vast reserves. The point is though he was not at his peak capabilities when he fought Vader and Sidious. That was partially a joke ( although it could be true from what I know of other character's lightning ). Also he did use lightning and TK to defeat the Imperials in his path. I'm not sure what you meant to do there by questioning that.

If it's not backed up by evidence I just don't see how they're relevant personally. You're correct and because of that I believe Sidious would be capable of such a feat. Unlike you though I don't see why Sidious wouldn't have his defenses up. That's your own opinion. You don't know what a comparatively powerful force user is capable of against a superior opponent and neither do I. Read above for my other examples of superior force users failing to overcome weaker ones or lesser force users affecting more powerful ones.

Revan solos.