Tony Stark (with prep) vs Superman

Started by KuRuPT Thanosi7 pages

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Phoenix wanted him to kill her, and was only tearing chunks of flesh off of him, where as she was full on atomizing everything else. Even if he had the skeleton, if she had treated him like everyone else, she should have stripped all the skin and muscle off him in one go. Not to mention she was lifting others in the air, but choosing to just knock him back. She could have lifted him and tossed him a mile away at any point, but chose not to. So kind of an ambiguous showing. And that proves my point about how dumb and ridiculous the Wolverine tearing adamantium showing is. Would you really take anyone seriously who would suggest Wolverine is physically stronger than Phoenix's tk?

Yes it can be damaged. But what is required to damage it > Wolverine level strength, seeing as that was the comparison initially drawn.

Using that kind of logic for debating doesn't work, because just because something is the best in its universe, doesn't mean it would hold up as well in another on. Adamantium does not exist in Tony's universe, and as such has never been directly matched against vibranium onscreen, so there is not much of a point bringing it up, because in the end it remains speculation.

I still voted for Supes and said that I don't think Tony can actually figure out a way to beat Superman without kryptonite. I just had an issue with that line of reasoning. Would have pointed it out regardless of who was making the argument.

In the end, I actually agree with a statement you made way earlier. This thread is dumb and has no real scope.

Don't disagree with most of this, though I will say one thing In Re: Phoenix and Wolverine interaction. I do get what you're saying as there is a little bit of ambiguity there, to some degree at least. The thing is, it doesn't make sense for her to be atomizing others, but just trying to take chunks from Wolverine. That seems to imply that Jean wasn't trying to kill him, and that I just don't really agree with. I'll admit it is possible, considering their relationship. However, it then begs the question:

Why did Jean/Phoenix even try and do anything at all? She was clearly hurting him, and severely so, only thanks to his healing factor did he not die. We'd have to then further extrapolate that she knew exactly what he could take thanks to his HF and did just enough. While possible, seems a bridge too far.

Plus, when you watch the scene, there is a ashy hot dark substance flying away from him body. It looks very similar to what she was doing to everybody else and they turned it ash. So if we say she was trying to kill him, well then he'd have to heal pretty fast... Well, he's Wolverine.

Think about it, when he went flying from his bike and he brought down the Chopper in Origins. His jump later in the movie from the collapsing reactor structure. His flying throw the window in X1. They all point to the same thing, his immediate injuries would be severe in any one of those instances. Yet all we see is some cuts and a KO sometimes. He's mostly fine. So it seems likely he just continued to heal over and over each time she blasted him. He's just Wolverine. Now I'm not sure what the discussion is over, and like I said, I agree with your post mostly. Even don't disagree on what I commented on. I think there is some level of subjectivity to the scene. That's just my view on it.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Don't disagree with most of this, though I will say one thing In Re: Phoenix and Wolverine interaction. I do get what you're saying as there is a little bit of ambiguity there, to some degree at least. The thing is, it doesn't make sense for her to be atomizing others, but just trying to take chunks from Wolverine. That seems to imply that Jean wasn't trying to kill him, and that I just don't really agree with. I'll admit it is possible, considering their relationship. However, it then begs the question:

Why did Jean/Phoenix even try and do anything at all? She was clearly hurting him, and severely so, only thanks to his healing factor did he not die. We'd have to then further extrapolate that she knew exactly what he could take thanks to his HF and did just enough. While possible, seems a bridge too far.

Plus, when you watch the scene, there is a ashy hot dark substance flying away from him body. It looks very similar to what she was doing to everybody else and they turned it ash. So if we say she was trying to kill him, well then he'd have to heal pretty fast... Well, he's Wolverine.

Think about it, when he went flying from his bike and he brought down the Chopper in Origins. His jump later in the movie from the collapsing reactor structure. His flying throw the window in X1. They all point to the same thing, his immediate injuries would be severe in any one of those instances. Yet all we see is some cuts and a KO sometimes. He's mostly fine. So it seems likely he just continued to heal over and over each time she blasted him. He's just Wolverine. Now I'm not sure what the discussion is over, and like I said, I agree with your post mostly. Even don't disagree on what I commented on. I think there is some level of subjectivity to the scene. That's just my view on it.

Well, like I said, it kind of goes both ways. There is evidence that a part of her was trying to kill him, but also evidence that a big part of her didn't, like when she begs him to "save"/kill her. Which is why it is a bit of an ambiguous showing IMO. Either way, there seemed to be enough inner conflict that she gave him an opening to take her out.

Because, as I pointed out, the notion that Phoenix can't damage adamantium, but Logan has enough physical strength to do so, is absurd.

Anyway, as mentioned by multiple posters, this thread is kind of dumb. Unless we have clear stips on how much prep time Tony gets, and what other constraints are placed upon him, we can't really come up with a conclusive answer here.

Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Were you born stupid, or did you just end up that way?

I know I'm smart your opinion of me mean jack to me.

It seems likely that Jean had enough control of her powers or the phoenix force to keep from killing Logan and to give him the chance to kill her before her power or the phoenix force took full control.

Well, as to the thread, without more defined stips, there is little point in continuing. If Tony gets a week's prep and limited interaction with others, he'd get murder stomped. If he does actually get 10 years, and is free to pursue any tech he wants, who knows what could happen. Consider the fact that he hasn't even been Iron Man for a full 10 years canonically, so if you compare his cave suit to Veronica, you can see how much progress Tony can make over such a large space of time.

But, as I said, there are not enough clear stips for us to draw a proper conclusion.

Agreed, the thread is rather ambiguous which further complicates drawing any conclusion. My view is, Tony should be able to call on external resources to get the job done. fi Tony was actually in this situation, and superman was coming for him, he would do exactly that. A week might not be enough, but a couple of months should certainly do it. He doesn't even need 1 year, let alone 10 imo.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agreed, the thread is rather ambiguous which further complicates drawing any conclusion. My view is, Tony should be able to call on external resources to get the job done. fi Tony was actually in this situation, and superman was coming for him, he would do exactly that. A week might not be enough, but a couple of months should certainly do it. He doesn't even need 1 year, let alone 10 imo.

Yep.

Originally posted by KuRuPT Thanosi
Agreed, the thread is rather ambiguous which further complicates drawing any conclusion. My view is, Tony should be able to call on external resources to get the job done. fi Tony was actually in this situation, and superman was coming for him, he would do exactly that. A week might not be enough, but a couple of months should certainly do it. He doesn't even need 1 year, let alone 10 imo.

Pretty much. The match stips can vastly change the outcome, so we need more info to draw a better conclusion.

Originally posted by golem370
I know I'm smart your opinion of me mean jack to me.
TI has your number.

😂

Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, as to the thread, without more defined stips, there is little point in continuing. If Tony gets a week's prep and limited interaction with others, he'd get murder stomped. If he does actually get 10 years, and is free to pursue any tech he wants, who knows what could happen. Consider the fact that he hasn't even been Iron Man for a full 10 years canonically, so if you compare his cave suit to Veronica, you can see how much progress Tony can make over such a large space of time.

But, as I said, there are not enough clear stips for us to draw a proper conclusion.

Unless he has knite, there is no way to stop Superman at this point. Tony had years of prep with Veronica and Hulk basically destroyed (before spare parts came in to the rescue) it and got a lucky KO.

Where does it say that Tony spent "years" of time working on Veronica?

The gap in movies in 3 years. He didn't shit that armor out in 1 week dude.