Ahsoka Tano vs Shaak Ti

lol

Also, TCW Maul isn't significantly above TPM Maul, who was capable of collapsing barracks with a Force Scream as a teenager.

Originally posted by Nephthys

"When he's fooling Ezra, when he's pretending to be this old, frail man, [b]part of that has got to be the truth, about his frailty about what his intentions are towards Ezra, all those things." [/B]

Originally posted by SunRazer
lol

Also, TCW Maul isn't significantly above TPM Maul, who was capable of collapsing barracks with a Force Scream as a teenager.

Its probably hyperbole, yeah.

Holy shit you guys are idiots, lol.

It was TPM Maul who survived being cut in half, an injury that surely would have left most other Force users dead, and only grew more powerful from having done so. And if we're quoting Witwer, it was an act of Force Mastery that Sidious - the most powerful Sith ever 😎 - hadn't thought possible until performed by Maul. Apparently, Maul recuperating from his abilities is "the seed planted" in Sidious' head that Vader would be able to recover from his Mustafar injuries.

I'd say that alone secures TPM Maul's placement as a powerhouse. And also, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence; just because we haven't seen TPM Maul let loose it doesn't mean his upper limit is moving f*cking bolders lol. The bolder feat in question was done so casually Maul wasn't even paying attention to it. Try practising inference for once.

As for the barracks feat, as I've said before it's something I'm perfectly willing to concede since it's not concrete, but given that; 1. Maul is a powerhouse, 2. Luceno used similar language when he was talking about Sidious bringing down a restaurant in Darth Plagueis and 3. The short story it happened in is called Restraint. The entire theme of that story and others like it regarding Maul is that Maul is being forced to restrain his powers. He can't show anyone he's a Sith because it's not time yet. He's forced to train and perform missions without using the Force in any capacity. Even in Lockdown he opts to not draw on his Force Senses because of Sidious' order. So yeah, given all of that, I don't find it impossible that an extremely p*ssed off Maul could bring a building down.

Originally posted by ILS
Holy shit you guys are idiots, lol.

It was TPM Maul who survived being cut in half, an injury that surely would have left most other Force users dead, and only grew more powerful from having done so. And if we're quoting Witwer, it was an act of Force Mastery that Sidious - the most powerful Sith ever 😎 - hadn't thought possible until performed by Maul. Apparently, Maul recuperating from his abilities is "the seed planted" in Sidious' head that Vader would be able to recover from his Mustafar injuries.

I'd say that alone secures TPM Maul's placement as a powerhouse. And also, absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence; just because we haven't seen TPM Maul let loose it doesn't mean his upper limit is moving f*cking bolders lol. The bolder feat in question was done so casually Maul wasn't even paying attention to it. Try practising inference for once.

As for the barracks feat, as I've said before it's something I'm perfectly willing to concede since it's not concrete, but given that; 1. Maul is a powerhouse, 2. Luceno used similar language when he was talking about Sidious bringing down a restaurant in Darth Plagueis and 3. The short story it happened in is called Restraint. The entire theme of that story and others like it regarding Maul is that Maul is being forced to restrain his powers. He can't show anyone he's a Sith because it's not time yet. He's forced to train and perform missions without using the Force in any capacity. Even in Lockdown he opts to not draw on his Force Senses because of Sidious' order. So yeah, given all of that, I don't find it impossible that an extremely p*ssed off Maul could bring a building down.

Sure, he was pissed. But frankly he's 15 years old, and if that stage he can destroy a building with a Force scream of all things, he's easily on level with prime Maul already.

I was given the impression being cut in half forced Maul to push his powers to new plateaus, causing him to emerge stronger than before, much like it was the case for Krayt and Revan.

I don't recall denying Maul to be a powerhouse, only that in his prime he grows markedly Maul stronger. Granted he's got some impressive telekinetic abilities, by ragdolling Kenobi seems quite outside his paygrade by TPM.

All we know is that Maul grew "more powerful". We don't know to what degree but it's not massive. And from what I can tell his surviving Naboo feat is held in greater renown than the typical "lift massive shit" feats people pull off.

Comparing him to Plagueis does much to prove the realism of the feat lmao.

But sure, he was pissed. But frankly he's 15 years old, and if that stage he can destroy a building with a Force scream of all things, he's easily on level with prime Maul already.

Where do you place Revan, ILS? Just curious.

In the trash bin.

With Bane and Zannah. 🙂

Originally posted by ILS
It's power he had access to by TPM. I wouldn't think being forced to push your limits is an excuse.

And Death Sentence implies that coming back from near death indeed did that.

It only "seems" outside of his paygrade because you're adopting a feats-focused approach. Kenobi and Anakin pre-AotC were holding massive ships in place. TPM Maul doesn't have any "feats" of TK on that level. Would you have me believe either one of them is more powerful than the guy who taught Darth Sidious something about the Dark Side? It doesn't add up.

All we know is that Maul grew "more powerful". We don't know to what degree but it's not massive. And from what I can tell his surviving Naboo feat is held in greater renown than the typical "lift massive shit" feats people pull off.

What I drew attention to was ragdolling Kenobi, and if you caught my edit, keeping up with Darth Sidious. Kenobi is a powerful Force user, and surely around the upper limit of what Dooku can TK, and if TPM Maul had anything close to that level of ability, it begs the question why he didn't use it against Jinn and Obi-Wan in TPM.

And if memory serves, TPM Maul couldn't even perceive Sidious movements, let alone keep up.

Beni, do you know how to read?

Or, and bare with me here; feats aren't everything. If 15 year old Maul is capable of that, a Maul who is actually a Sith Lord and has grown far more powerful is capable of much more. Simple logic.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
And yet Vader's Force scream wasn't even that powerful. So maybe not?

Horrific logic? Minding explaining your own first?

Well, you're chalking up Maul's theoretical force scream to hyperbole based on the fact that he's 15 and it'd be better than Vader's force scream. The only reason you'd logically have a problem with that is if you thought it implied Maul is more powerful than Vader. What I'm saying is that we have other examples, (Malgus, Exar Kun) of force screams more powerful than Vader's. This doesn't necessarily mean they're more powerful than Vader, ergo you shouldn't have a problem with Maul potentially having the capability to down a barracks with a force scream.

Nah. For starters Malgus' Force scream was not notably more powerful than Vader's, it buckled a viewport, caused the crews ears to bleed, and overloaded the fuel cells of some passing fighters. Vader's scream destroyed everything in the room, was felt through the entire building, and rendered a guy fully deaf.

Frankly inclined to say Vader's is more powerful.

Kun's scream created a ripple through the Cosmic Force isn't really applicable to the destructive effects we are discussing.

Anyway, I'm not claiming that the intensity of a Force scream is a particularly accurate way of assessing ability. But as with all powers there are levels of potency, and destroying a frikken building has only been attributed to the likes of Plagueis and Sidious to my knowledge. Go figure.

Isn't being pushed to your limits how you become stronger? I think it is.

And Death Sentence implies that coming back from near death indeed did that.

Right. I conceded that Maul has some impressive telekinetic feats, that's not my point.

What I drew attention to was ragdolling Kenobi, and if you caught my edit, keeping up with Darth Sidious. Kenobi is a powerful Force user, and surely around the upper limit of what Dooku can TK, and if TPM Maul had anything close to that level of ability, it begs the question why he didn't use it against Jinn and Obi-Wan in TPM.

And if memory serves, TPM Maul couldn't even perceive Sidious movements, let alone keep up.

Uh... in Shadow Conspiracy Maul couldn't perceive Sidious, either. Anakin in the RotS novel couldn't perceive him. Not many people can. They can still react to him through their Force-guided senses, usually, but their visual perceptions usually can't keep up.

Lel I understand the point you made, I'm pointing kind of level that feat is associable with.

If you look hard enough there are ridiculous feats everywhere in Star Wars. It gets to the point where an evaluation by feats becomes kind of redundant. Especially because, as you said, teenage, non-Sith temper tantrum Maul has a better Force Scream than Darth Vader.

All I'm really saying with all of this is that TPM Maul is stupidly underrated because he doesn't have explicit "lift all the big shit" feats.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Witwer said that there must be some truth in what he told Ezra about being frail. And that he was past his prime. So no, he is not physically frail, but it stands to reason his physical abilities have atrophied.

But again, he is visibly in excellent shape and he is only fifty years old. Even at age eighty Dooku's age is stated to not detriment him in the slightest.

In that respect I see no reason to believe they had atrophied to any considerable degree, certainly not enough to put him beneath TPM Maul when he should remain considerably more powerful in the Force. If you disagree, prove it.Nah.Rebels Maul.

... He's confirming that Maul's statement about being frail is for the most part true and given the fact that he's aged by a quite a bit I see that statement as being logical. Glad we could agree that he's atrophied.

He's visibly thinner and less muscled then his TPM or TCW counterpart actually.

I believe he's atrophied at the very least to a moderate degree given statements, logic and his appearance.

Maul as of Rebels has ragdolled the SS. Maul as of TPM was able to collapse a barracks. I don't see why Rebels Maul would be "considerably more powerful."

So from "part of that" being true you've arbitrarily inferred most of it is true. OK.

Comparatively yes, but for his age he is in excellent shape and certainly not at all frail looking.

Any moderate physical atrophying isn't going to be of much detriment to his abilities when it wasn't to Dooku, Yoda, Sidious etc.

Treating Rebels in a vacuum is hardly reasonable when we've no reason to assume he's any less of a Force user than he was in TCW.

Originally posted by ILS
All I'm really saying with all of this is that TPM Maul is stupidly underrated because he doesn't have explicit "lift all the big shit" feats.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
So from "part of that" being true you've arbitrarily inferred most of it is true. OK.

Comparatively yes, but for his age he is in excellent shape and certainly not at all frail looking.

Any moderate physical atrophying isn't going to be of much detriment to his abilities when it wasn't to Dooku, Yoda, Sidious etc.

Treating Rebels in a vacuum is hardly reasonable when we've no reason to assume he's any less of a Force user than he was in TCW.Fair enough. Bar some things above that I would nitpick on, I can in general agree with that.

That and a myriad of other factors I mentioned below.

Dooku, Yoda and Sidious all had vast reserves of the Force to draw on to make up for that and even for Dooku that came back to bite him in the butt when he faced off against the younger and more powerful Anakin. There's nothing to suggest Maul increased in power from TCW meaning his overall combative effectiveness would be lowered.

I agree and I think Maul is likely at the same level he was which IS above TPM Maul in regards to the Force. It's just not to the point that I think it makes up for his TPM incarnations far superior physicals and likely superior skills in lightsaber combat.

Originally posted by Syndicate
That and a myriad of other factors I mentioned below.

Dooku, Yoda and Sidious all had vast reserves of the Force to draw on to make up for that and even for Dooku that came back to bite him in the butt when he faced off against the younger and more powerful Anakin.

And yes it did, hence why I said it wasn't much of a detriment, being exhausted by one of the greatest Djem So stylists ever hardly refutes that.

There's nothing to suggest Maul increased in power from TCW meaning his overall combative effectiveness would be lowered.

He's certainly not getting beaten by Jinn or Koon as you've claimed.

I agree and I think Maul is likely at the same level he was which IS above TPM Maul in regards to the Force. It's just not to the point that I think it makes up for his TPM incarnations far superior physicals and likely superior skills in lightsaber combat.

And why would he have superior skills in lightsaber combat? If anything Rebels Maul is better by virtue of experience.

Originally posted by chilled monkey
Ti wins this one. Tano has too many flaws in her technique

1) She's too dependant on having two blades. Deprive her of one and she folds.

2) Her fighting style is more suited to battlefield engagements than duelling. Her "stop-start" method makes her predictable and prevents her from getting offensive momentum.

3) Worst of all. Two words: Reverse grip.

Ti wins handily.

You've watched Reti4's video on her haven't you? Probably one of his best breakdowns.