Ahsoka Tano vs Shaak Ti

Originally posted by Lord Stark
Are you retarded? Anakin overwhelmed Dooku in 10 seconds after the little 'you have hate, you have anger, but you don't use them' speech.

Even Yoda was incapable of that in AOTCs and Dark Rendezvous.

So either we accept Anakin as the best duelist in the mythos or accept that was a high end outlier feat.

I personally think that Anakin being>Yoda and Sidious is a ridiculous notion. His other feats suggest that Anakin regularly is roughly on par with Dooku and Windu, in the zone he's god tier.

Yeah, that's why he pwned Obi-wan.

Oh wait.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Or we accept Anakin is a literal demi-god like the plot keeps telling us and move on with life. We could do that too.

A demi-god that who can't tap in his power at a whim. Anakin can't just focus and demolish Dooku-level opponents like they're Kit Fist vs. Sidious.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Yeah, that's why he pwned Obi-wan.

Oh wait.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
A demi-god that who can't tap in his power at a whim. Anakin can't just focus and demolish Dooku-level opponents like they're Kit Fist vs. Sidious.

@Sel, that first excerpt is from when Dooku undermined Anakin's abilities by playing on his fear, before that Dooku is being exhausted by his assault:

Skywalker was all over him.

The shining blue lightsaber whirled and spat and every overhand chop crashed against Dooku's defense with the unstoppable power of a meteor strike; the Sith Lord spent lavishly of his reserve of the Force merely to meet these attacks without being cut in half, and Skywalker-Skywalker was getting stronger.

Each parry cost Dooku more power than he'd used to throw Kenobi across the room; each block aged him a decade.

So its hardly surprising what when he properly taps into the dark side, Dooku is utterly outmatched.

Regardless its irrelevant to the point, Dooku was being exhausted by Anakin well before he called upon his rage. And Vader is stronger than that.

Concerning Ahsoka vs Vader, I'm only seeing a 10 second portion of the fight where she does as you described. For the remainder of what we see she meets his attacks head on. For example:

And considering that again she is an Ataru/Djem So stylist first and foremost, it stands to reason that was what she was doing for the majority of the half we didn't see.

Not that deflecting his attacks wouldn't have been considerably taxing in itself, it was for Dooku.

In the short term it was, yes, but again that was a focussed Anakin fighting to save Kenobi. As soon as Dooku taunts Anakin, he's incredibly easy to deal with. Conflicted feelings seem to weaken him, yet not once have you acknowledged the fact Vader was obviously incredibly conflicted while facing Ahsoka.

How was Vader incredibly conflicted when facing Ahsoka?

He wasn't, more at 6.

Honestly, the only person he was really close to that he wanted to kill was Obi-Wan, and aside from embarrassing him, he also kind of made him a mega-cripple and left him to burn alive, so that's kind of understandable.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
He wasn't, more at 6.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Yeah, after starving himself, not sleeping, and being conflicted. And he was still winning until the very end. You should understand that kind of thing, since that sums up about every war you've ever had with France.

But it was like a day, lol. I'm sure a Jedi of Anakin's caliber wasn't impacted by 1 day of no food and sleep.

Originally posted by Selenial
In the short term it was, yes, but again that was a focussed Anakin fighting to save Kenobi. As soon as Dooku taunts Anakin, he's incredibly easy to deal with. Conflicted feelings seem to weaken him, yet not once have you acknowledged the fact Vader was obviously incredibly conflicted while facing Ahsoka.

But yes, conflicted feelings do disrupt Anakin’s focus, but Dave Filoni made it explicitly clear that Vader was not at all conflicted in this fight:

As far as how Vader would treat Ahsoka and react to her, I base that interaction – the attitude, if not the dialogue – on my conversation with George about how that would go. I asked him pretty pointedly, “How would this conversation go? How would he feel about her?” We both agreed that the one thing that Ahsoka can’t represent in any way is any path of redemption for Vader, or the hope that that’s there because Luke is the only one that’s going to be able to make that happen. And that’s the story that we see. It was our belief that we could have this moment, but it’s not even a moment of hesitation for Vader. Because he says then, “You will die,” and he means it. He is going to destroy her, and the reason that is, is that she has knowledge of him as a good person. She represents and is a vessel for everything that he once was, and he finds such pain in that, and hatred, and anger. He doesn’t want to face what he’s become, but he just wants to destroy anything that reminds him of that former self.

http://uk.ign.com/articles/2016/03/31/star-wars-rebels-dave-filoni-on-ahsokas-fate-mauls-return-and-much-more?page=2

Vader was absolutely prepared to destroy her, if anything extraordinarily so, and by Lucas' edict only Luke is allowed to create conflict for Vader. So naw, not at all.

That quote is quite explicitly explaining his internal conflict though, and how unrefined he may be while fighting her. He was in the exact same mental state while fighting Kenobi, and look how that turned out for him.

Hell, even in the expanded universe he faced that exact problem. Vader's main power spike in the original EU came after he finally confronted the ghost of Padme, and finally accepted what he had become. It brought him to new heights of power, why should it be different this time?

Originally posted by Nephthys
But it was like a day, lol. I'm sure a Jedi of Anakin's caliber wasn't impacted by 1 day of no food and sleep.

Nothing in Filoni's quote implies Vader was heavily conflicted when fighting Ahsoka. There was no part in him that was saying "No, I shouldn't do this", he was completely ready to kill Ahsoka and would not have hesitated to do so. I believe in the RotS novel, it goes on about how Anakin couldn't even sense Kenobi and was "between worlds" or some shit. I mean, the mother****er was crying minutes before he confronted Kenobi and just choked out his wife; a completely unstable lunatic. Vader in Rebels is in his prime and solidified in the dark side, and isn't an emotional wreck. Pretty clear differences I'd say.

👆

I was going to say much the same.

He's also learned how to properly command his emotions in service of his power according to LotS:

...Pain fed his hate, and hate fed his strength. Once, as a Jedi, he had meditated to find peace. Now he meditated to sharpen the edges of his anger.

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they’d perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
No, most of what Ahsoka did was deflecting and countering his attacks.It's not a matter of debate, he's stated to be more powerful in Lords of the Sith.Huh? BFR'ed =/= defeated. And it lasted 50 seconds after the cut away, 1:40 in total.Perhaps, but the point is it demonstrates she wasn't tired after fight with Vader, Ti was to the point Grievous legit one-shotted.Point is she was clearly wielding primarily Ataru. But granted, Ti has other options.

... You know I meant to say Shaak Ti.

Quote?

BFR'ed? Vader walked out of the temple, she didn't. She was obviously defeated. Also we don't know how much of that time was Vader limping to the exit. She could have been defeated within 30 seconds and the rest of the time was Vader either standing over her dead body or him walking out of the temple. Given how deep they were inside the temple it wouldn't surprised me if it took 2 minutes to get out of their moving as slowly as Vader was.

I don't think it demonstrated she wasn't tired. I think it demonstrated that she had enough energy to cut off a part of his mask while he was distracted. Though you're correct in that Shaak was more tired after her fight with the magnaguards then Ahsoka was after her fight with Vader. The thing is though I personally don't know if fighting off Vader for the amount of time Ahsoka did and fighting off dozens of magnaguards for the amount of time Shaak did are comparable in terms of energy use. I'd have to think on that tbh though I assume your stances is that they're comparable and likely on the same level given Ahsoka's use of Ataru?

Yep.

Admittedly Freshest has a point. If Anakin isn't going to be conflicted after just having choked out his wife who he thinks brought his best friend to kill him I don't know when he would be.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Quote?

He stared at his reflection a long time. His injuries had deformed his body, left it a ruin, but they'd perfected his spirit, strengthening his connection to the Force. Suffering had birthed insight.

BFR'ed? Vader walked out of the temple, she didn't. She was obviously defeated. Also we don't know how much of that time was Vader limping to the exit. She could have been defeated within 30 seconds and the rest of the time was Vader either standing over her dead body or him walking out of the temple. Given how deep they were inside the temple it wouldn't surprised me if it took 2 minutes to get out of their moving as slowly as Vader was.

She certainly wasn't one shotted, as we see Ahsoka holding Vader off as the temple collapses.

I don't think it demonstrated she wasn't tired. I think it demonstrated that she had enough energy to cut off a part of his mask while he was distracted.

Though you're correct in that Shaak was more tired after her fight with the magnaguards then Ahsoka was after her fight with Vader. The thing is though I personally don't know if fighting off Vader for the amount of time Ahsoka did and fighting off dozens of magnaguards for the amount of time Shaak did are comparable in terms of energy use. I'd have to think on that tbh though I assume your stances is that they're comparable and likely on the same level given Ahsoka's use of Ataru?

But lets not ignore the Battle of Hypori, that left Shaak Ti exhausted as well.

My belief is Ahsoka has more stamina that Shaak Ti. And I'm inclined to give her a small skill advantage considering she's fighting evenly with Maul.

Fighting Rebels Maul shouldn't really count as a good thing after that Kanan stomp.