Originally posted by cs_zoltan
I concede. Pushing Vader back a few meters without him even getting floored obviously outclasses Kenobi's feat. Ahsoka ragdolls.
Didn't that force push put him on his knees?
Originally posted by Lord Stark
How? Maul's performance against Ventress and Kenobi (who have both struggle with Savage) deconstructs the notion that Maul can do that to Savage at anytime.
Both Maul and Kenobi have stomped Savage. So I personally see no reason to put him on their level.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Didn't that force push put him on his knees?
Yes, which is not flooring. This is flooring: https://youtu.be/BXoJeLDyVBY?t=3m2s
Round 1: Grand Inquisitor, 5th Brother, 7th Sister & 8th Brother
Ahsoka herself can handle 5th Brother and 7th Sister just fine. Even given their improvement, seeing Maul's performance against them, I don't think they can defeat her, at best it can evolve into a larger combat than when she stomped them.
Ben Kenobi is infinitely superior to Grand Inquisitor, 8th Brother is a joke compared to Maul.
It goes for both sabers only and all-out.
Round 2: Count Dooku, Asajj Ventress & Savage Opress
Lightsabers only they can pass. Dooku will have a very hard time defeating Maul, the same with Ahsoka fighting with Asajj, but both should last until Ben Kenobi defeats Savage.
All-out, Savage's Force powers change the game. Ben will have a harder time with Savage, and if Ahsoka beats Asajj, she does so barely in a close combat. Dooku vs. Maul remains insanely prolonged combat. Basically depends on who has the earliest shot at defeating his opponent, and everybody has a shot here. It can go either way.
Round 3: Darth Wyyrlok, Darth Nihl and Darth Talon
Lightsabers only I don't see a real contest. Maul is superior to everybody, old Kenobi too, although with Wyyrlok it's kinda close, and Ahsoka is close to Wyyrlok and safely above Nihl and Talon.
All-out it becomes pretty random. Wyyrlok's mental skills are a bit of a wildcard, such skills turn the battlefield into chaos. It becomes too random to call, especially with Talon's pretty exotic Force powers that she is skilled in combat-usage.
Round 4: KOTOR Revan, Satele Shan & Bastila Shan
Lightsabers only Revan is a good match to anybody (I go by the idea that as a combatant KotOR Revan is honestly the same as later iterations; his slaughter onboard the Star Forge is still his best combat feat to date for me), but Satele is beneath anybody here, and Bastila is completely out of her league. While Revan can give a good fight to Maul or Ben, Bastila dies quickly enough for Revan to be dogpiled with Satele to fall soon after. I don't see a chance for the KotOR team.
All out it becomes random. Revan holds the Force edge above anybody here, Satele holds the edge above anybody sans Maul. As always, the Force usage isn't a very solid edge - it all depends on character's luck to have a good moment for the more devastating Force application and how much chaos in the enemy force it can cause. I highly doubt the gauntlet runners can pass though. Both Revan and Satele are incredibly capable in surprising Force onslaughts and they are seen as capable to unleash them to an important extent even in combat (which fewer characters do than people think).
Round 5: Jaina Solo, Kyp Durron & Corran Horn
Hmm. Lightsabers only Jaina decisively beats either, Corran Horn gives a good fight to anybody, same with Kyp, but they definitely fall. If Jaina deals with Maul first, and there is left with old Ben and Ahsoka to battle, she has some very slim chances, but they are pretty slim. And I don't think there's a reason to think Jaina beats Maul faster than Ben beats Kyp, or Ahsoka beats Corran.
All-out I can't say. We never saw Kyp demonstrating the skill to use his Force power to a more devastating extent within combat, which is very different from applying devastating power outside of direct engagement. Sure, it comes from Kyp's lack of exposure, but we can't really judge that. I think I'll just leave that.
Boss Round: Master Yoda & Mace Windu
Lightsabers only Yoda can solo in a great fight. With two of them? Mace defeats Maul decisively, while Yoda mops the floor with Ben and Ahsoka in a matter of seconds.
All-out it's pretty much the same, but if Yoda brings his Force power to play it's even more terrible.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Yes, which is not flooring. This is flooring: https://youtu.be/BXoJeLDyVBY?t=3m2s
You said all it did was push him back without flooring it. I pointed out it actually put him on his knees, which is pretty impressive for Vader to go flying back that far and put on his knees. Definitely more impressive than you're making out.
I don't remember Kenobi ever doing anything like that to a Tk user of Dooku's level or above.
Remember in TCW movie when Anakin force pushes Dooku, the effect wasn't even close to the hit Ahsoka managed to get on Vader.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
How? Maul's performance against Ventress and Kenobi (who have both struggle with Savage) deconstructs the notion that Maul can do that to Savage at anytime.
ABC logic. Anyway, the Maul who faced Ventress was explicitly weaker than the one from future episodes.
Originally posted by Lord Stark
How is Sidious a more overwhelming and dominating opponent than Yoda when Yoda at one point was overwhelming him in contest of sabers?Not to mention the ROTS novel states his form made him a "whirlwind of destruction" and the "the fiercest, most implacable, most devastatingly powerful foe the darkness had ever known".
Yoda is just as overwhelming and dominating of an opponent as Darth Sidious in a contest of sabers. Dooku is just better than Maul.
Because Sidious is a Sith who goes for the kill and has no restraint. I’m not saying Yoda is a less skilled combatant, but you don’t see characters like Yoda or Luke Skywalker utterly dominate other force users in the way Sidious does. Not because they can’t. But rather because it’s not the Jedi way. Also while Dooku may have lasted longer in the 1v1, Maul actually got a hit in. So I really wouldn’t say either performance is better than the other. Especially since both were pretty much ass kickings.
Originally posted by Darth ThorAnakin couldn't even push Ventress that far. 🙂 👆
You said all it did was push him back without flooring it. I pointed out it actually put him on his knees, which is pretty impressive for Vader to go flying back that far and put on his knees. Definitely more impressive than you're making out.I don't remember Kenobi ever doing anything like that to a Tk user of Dooku's level or above.
Remember in TCW movie when Anakin force pushes Dooku, the effect wasn't even close to the hit Ahsoka managed to get on Vader.
Originally posted by ares834Yet Sidious wasn't going for the kill, and restraining himself against Maul. mmm
Because Sidious is a Sith who goes for the kill and has no restraint. I’m not saying Yoda is a less skilled combatant, but you don’t see characters like Yoda or Luke Skywalker utterly dominate other force users in the way Sidious does. Not because they can’t. But rather because it’s not the Jedi way. Also while Dooku may have lasted longer in the 1v1, Maul actually got a hit in. So I really wouldn’t say either performance is better than the other. Especially since both were pretty much ass kickings.
ABC logic. Anyway, the Maul who faced Ventress was explicitly weaker than the one from future episodes.
And? The Kenobi Maul fought was in a worse state. And again, Maul ended the fight with his taloned feat, how are you going to argue that wasn't a supreme advantage to him.
Because Sidious is a Sith who goes for the kill and has no restraint. I’m not saying Yoda is a less skilled combatant, but you don’t see characters like Yoda or Luke Skywalker utterly dominate other force users in the way Sidious does. Not because they can’t. But rather because it’s not the Jedi way. Also while Dooku may have lasted longer in the 1v1, Maul actually got a hit in. So I really wouldn’t say either performance is better than the other. Especially since both were pretty much ass kickings.
Yoda himself admits he and indeed the entire Jedi Order was influenced by the Dark Side of the Force during the Clone Wars. That's why he had to face his inner darkness when he went to complete the Force training. Further evidence that points to this is that the Council approved missions to assassinate Dooku and Yoda and Mace both tried to assassinate Sidious. 'Destroy the Sith we must'.
Sidious let that duel last as long as he wanted it to. Even starting saber locks from a disadvantageous position. And Sidious successfully subdued Maul.
Yoda on the other hand admits at the very start of the Battle of Geonosis that they have to capture Dooku. Mace even saw the Count as the Shatterpoint. And yet with all that riding still failed to capture him. The fact of the matter is that unlike Sidious Yoda couldn't end the duel whenever he wanted. He needed to go all out to defeat Dooku. Sidious played with Maul the whole time.