The Immortal Emperors

They get stomped by the Daughter.

Yep.

Did Legend just try to lowball dovin basal manipulation?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Characters tend to lie and manipulate to achieve their goals. The Father is not an exception.

Luke solo'ing Valkorion and Palpatine? What?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
They get stomped by the Daughter.

I'm not arguing against this, but why do you say it? Is the Daughter really that powerful?

Well Taalon partway through his pool of knowledge transformation was dominating Luke and the Daughter was already an immortal being of immense made of force energy prior to being completely transformed by said pool... So yeah, Daughter is that powerful.

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
I'm not arguing against this, but why do you say it? Is the Daughter really that powerful?

The Father acknowledges that if his children were released they would cause widespread chaos and destruction and rip the fabric of space apart. He worries about this in spite of the most powerful Jedi and Sith in history being around not to mention 10,000 Jedi Knights and the most powerful militaries forged in the history of the galaxy.

The Ones are not just a tier but tiers and tiers above even the likes of Yoda and Sidious.

Originally posted by Lord Stark
the most powerful militaries forged in the history of the galaxy.

HAHAHAHAH what?

QUOTE=15691432]Originally posted by Lord Stark
The Ones are not just a tier but tiers and tiers above even the likes of Yoda and Sidious. [/QUOTE]

👆

The Clone army and the CIS army were massive. The Clone Wars threw the entire Force out of balance. It was likely the largest conflict, and likely will remain, in galactic history.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
The Clone army and the CIS army were massive. The Clone Wars threw the entire Force out of balance. It was likely the largest conflict, and likely will remain, in galactic history.

Actually that was Sidious's Sith rituals.

I don't dispute that it was the largest war in Galactic history, but the notion that either is larger than either the Rakata Infinite Empire or the Eternal Empire of Zakuul is laughable.

Originally posted by Syndicate
Actually that was Sidious's Sith rituals.

The Force seems to have already been out of balance prior to TPM. It just continues to become less balanced as the war goes on until the Jedi are extinct and Palpatine reigns supreme.

Originally posted by Tondemonai
I don't dispute that it was the largest war in Galactic history, but the notion that either is larger than either the Rakata Infinite Empire or the Eternal Empire of Zakuul is laughable.

No. It's really not. Anyway, the GE has the biggest military ever so...

Eh, Maul acts like the Force being out of balance is strange. If it was some gradual thing, he wouldn't act that way.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Actually, no it wasn't. TCW retconned the Force to being out of balance after Maul was beaten by Kenobi. and TCW>some shit EU novel, in Legend's canon.

F*ck off I thought we were just discussing it in a general sense. I don't give a shit about canon saying something different. If they don't outright contradict eachother I don't see why they can't exist alongside eachother.

That's an outright contradiction. And they can't coexist because that's not how continuity works. 😬

Then why is Yoda's vision clouded in AotC?

I do find it amusing that you lecture me on using "hyperbole" and trusting the Father's subjective word, and then base 90% of your posts on accolades about how Valkorian is "incredibly powerful" (as if that's somehow a quantifiable or meaningful piece of evidence) and can make beings of "pure dark side energy" (which obviously gives us lots of data points with which to compare him with Luke). 🙄

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Even if he targeted both, it isn't an insta-win for him. Abeloth lost the battle due to her idiotic strategy rather then lack of power.

Regardless, Luke and Krayt were powerful enough to not be ragdolled or oneshotted by her, .ie they were closer in power to her than Revan was to Vitiate.

Yes, I acknowledge the fact that members of Team 2 should avoid a melee-oriented combat strategy and use their overwhelming powers to their advantage instead. Valkorion isn't much fond of melee-oriented combat tactics so he can be expected to adopt the role of heavy artillery while Palpatine engages one (most probably Luke due to history).

In-fact, both Palpatine (DE) and Valkorion can affect both members of Team 1 with their powers simultaneously. Team 1 will be engulfed, trapped, weakened and eventually destroyed.

How is Palpatine supposed to prevent both of them from reaching Valkorian at the same time? "Tanking" won't work here.

It's one thing to argue that the Emperors outclass Luke and Krayt in Force abilities. It's another thing to claim that they outclass the duo by such a margin that they can win this fight in the seconds it takes for the two to close the gap on them and force a melee. They don't have the speed feats to avoid Luke, so their only hope is to basically one-shot him. There are a few options here:

[list]
[*]Telepathy: Vitiate + the dread masters could not break Revan in 300 years. Somehow I doubt that Valkorian alone is breaking him in 3 seconds.
[*]Telekinesis: dovin basal manipulation, Vader's fortress and supermassive black hole >>>
[*]Lightning: basically the only option for Valkorian. But it is implied that not even the Reborn Emperor could overwhelm the amped DE Luke with it, and you typically need a significant disparity in ability to overwhelm someone w/a lightsaber using lightning (think: Sidious vs. Windu, Dooku vs Obi Wan), and that likely does not apply here. Besides, what is Valky's greatest lightning feat? Shaking some capital ships? ooohhhh...that's something pre-NJO Luke could do with raw telekinesis.
[/list]

Or what if Luke tosses his lightsaber at Valkorian and uses the distraction to get personal and shatter his spine with shatterpoint? Or what if he folds-space his lightsaber into his skull? There are all sorts of tactical advantages that come with being able to engage at multiple combat ranges, rather than just trying to Force-lightning everyone.

Valkorion defeated an entire Dark Council from afar,

And suspiciously never replicates that ability when encountered without prep in non-nexuses.

Regardless, I'm not really impressed at his ability to kill 10 no-name fodder sith.

repelled lightsaber strikes at point-blank range,

So? Even Dark Empire Luke can absorb AT-AT laser cannons.

telepathically influenced billions of individuals across the planet,

There's a distinction between being able to influence large groups of unwitting non-force sensitives, and applying that against a Jedi grandmaster in the middle of combat.

created beings of pure Dark Side energy

You know how everybody mocks Revan fanboys with the "heart of the Force" quote? You're like that, except you aren't trying to be satirical. Doesn't it occur to you that "being of pure Dark Side energy" is a meaningless quote that doesn't hold any analytical value?

Doubtlessly you respond to this by pointing out that this must mean Valkorian is "incredibly powerful", and make me fall over in laughter at your inability to progress beyond vague adjectives like "incredibly" and "very".

and also killed a planet.

Dovan basils have tugged moons, which actually takes a lot more energy than razing a planetary surface.

The black hole at the center of the galaxy quote isn't figurative. The author is clearly trying to convey the idea that Luke makes himself literally immovable - if he were going for some fluffy hyperbole, he wouldn't have gone through several progressive comparisons:

But this time Luke was ready, he placed his own hand in front of Raynar's, rooted himself in the heart of the force. And when he did that he became the very essence of the immovable object. Nothing could dislodge him; not one of Lando's asteroid tuggers, not the Megador's 16 ion engines, not the blackhole at the center of the galaxy itself. Luke stood that way waiting, fully aware that the remaining bugcrunchers were moving into defensive positions.

So he writes "very essence of the immovable object", but figures most people would take this as a figurative statement - so he makes this clear by invoking progressively stronger forces and dismissing their ability to move him. The literalness seems pretty clear to me. (Use inversion: what would the author have written if he wanted to make the literal point? Pretty much exactly what he did. You don't put that much effort into making hyperbole seem real.)