Originally posted by quanchi112
You really go too far.
If you don't want to talk like adults then quit picking fights with one. I don't care for your bullshit either of you, you are pissing me off when you pick a fight with someone that might happen, you keep talking trash and you going to piss me off more. Create thread debate on other peoples thread but leave me alone the three of you.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He is slower but not so slow that he won't get his hands on them eventually. And he is a lot stronger and more durable than either. Also, Cap's shield can stop lightning, assuming he can actually block every single blast directed at him which, considering the speed electricity travels, is going to be pushing it. And there is no evidence he could actually deflect the lightning blast back at Doom (lightning doesn't quite operate like a repulsor blast), and even if he could, it would have no effect, considering we literally see Doom draw power from the city, and huge arcs of electricity shooting into his body, only powering him up further.So your argument is that Cap is going to essentially solo Doom (as Bucky has no shield here) with Doom's own powers, which Doom has shown immunity to?
Did I say Cap would solo? I am saying if neither can get the k.o the n it would be a stalemate. I wilp concede the team lose.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
He is slower but not so slow that he won't get his hands on them eventually. And he is a lot stronger and more durable than either. Also, Cap's shield can stop lightning, assuming he can actually block every single blast directed at him which, considering the speed electricity travels, is going to be pushing it. And there is no evidence he could actually deflect the lightning blast back at Doom (lightning doesn't quite operate like a repulsor blast), and even if he could, it would have no effect, considering we literally see Doom draw power from the city, and huge arcs of electricity shooting into his body, only powering him up further.So your argument is that Cap is going to essentially solo Doom (as Bucky has no shield here) with Doom's own powers, which Doom has shown immunity to?
As you've noticed, he doesn't have a sound argument, he just doesn't want to admit this was spite/bait thread.
Originally posted by golem370
Did I say Cap would solo? I am saying if neither can get the k.o the n it would be a stalemate. I wilp concede the team lose.
Well it'd be impossible for them to KO him. Thing couldn't do it with full swings and he was extremely strong to a level Cap wouldn't even begin to get close to. For example, if Cap tried to hold up the London Eye, he'd be pulped.
Also, Doom can either electrocute them with a high enough voltage to burn holes clean through them. Or he could just beat them to death as he is immune to their ways of doing damage and he's strong enough to tangle with Grimm in h2h.
Errr... he was grappling with the Thing and more than holding his own. How was he going to do that if he didn't have comparable strength? Thing would have completely manhandled him otherwise. And if you are saying Cap uses his shield to bounce a blast back, then you are basically saying he solos, as WS is just a spectator here, with no way to make a meaningful contribution.
Originally posted by KingD19
Well it'd be impossible for them to KO him. Thing couldn't do it with full swings and he was extremely strong to a level Cap wouldn't even begin to get close to. For example, if Cap tried to hold up the London Eye, he'd be pulped.
Not just that. Cap can hold a car from dropping off a ledge. Ben can pull an entire firetruck back onto a bridge. Cap can toss a motorcycle to wreck a military jeep. Ben can toss a car so hard that it flies several yards, hits Doom, send them flying another several yards into a bus, with still enough force to send the bus skidding another couple dozen feet. Ben >>>>> Cap in strength, and anyone who can hang with Ben in H2H and not get totally manhandled and tossed about would be too.
Originally posted by Silent Master
As you've noticed, he doesn't have a sound argument, he just doesn't want to admit this was spite/bait thread.
Yeah, I have not seen him make any kind of solid argument for the team. Anyone who watched the films knows they can't KO him, and reflecting lightning back on a guy who can generate, absorb and project it seems like an absolutely horrible idea.
Cap's shield also doesn't reflect lightning like you've pointed out. Thor hit it with a full Jotunheim strike and while a bit lightning bounced off along with the shockwave the reverb effect the shield produced, it's not like he can angle it and bounce it back like solid, focused energy attacks.
But yeah, we can say it does, it'll be like charging Doom back up with the exact amount of energy he just blasted at them.
Originally posted by golem370
His durability can keep him in the fight just like Cap stay in the fight with Ultron because he was no way close to Ultro n in strength but his damage soak/durability kept him fighting.
Yeah no. Big difference there. When Cap and Ultron matched brute strength, Ultron was usually able to get the upper hand. When Doom and Ben were grappling, they were basically a match for each other. I mean hell, Ben can easily tank getting hit by a truck, but Doom's hits could send him flying and the harder ones even seemed to stun him. Just based on that, you can tell that he had to be extremely strong. And by all means, what exactly did that version of Ultron Prime do to suggest he was significantly stronger than Cap? Stronger sure, but what makes you think there was an enormous gap there? What did he physically do that was so far beyond Steve? Not to mention it was way more than just damage soak that kept Steve in there. His shield, plus his speed, agility and H2H skill advantage helped him a lot too.
Ultron Prime's[that version] strength feats were some scraps with Iron Man in the air, but it was mostly slamming into one another and energy blasts.
While like Vault said, Ben and Doom were powerhouses. Remember in Silver Surfer when that 8 foot thick, multi-ton vault door got blown across the building by Doom flexing his new cosmic powers? It slammed Ben a few feet into a stone wall enough to make an imprint of his body and completely flatten Reed behind him.. All he said was "ow", then pulled himself free with no injuries.
Well, he did remark that that one "actually hurt", but, like you said, more in the brief "ow" sense, than actual damage. Earlier in that same movie, Ben takes a spinning helicopter tail rotor blade to the face without any kind of damage either (and the same cannot be said for the rotor).
He was actually unable to do any genuine harm to Tony slamming into him, so his strength couldn't have been that great.
The London Eye once again comes to mind. Even though he had the strength to hold it up, his body had to have the endurance to withstand the thousands of tons of pressure being rested mainly on his shoulders.
And yeah, Ultron was strong, but not uberly so in that version. Although being several hundred pounds of high end metal and polymer would make you a decent battering ram flying around at high speeds.
Those should still imo be many times stronger then Cap just like imo Thing was many times stronger. Dr Doom durability feat show him able to withstand incredible amounts of damage where as his strength feats do not show him being close to Thing's strength level. People usually assume Juggernaut and Thanos are in the same level of strength as Hulk or Thor why because they can stand toe to toe with those character not because they are seen lifting 10s or 100s of thousands of tons like Thor or the Hulk have done which is my point just because Doom can hang with Thing doesn't mean he close to Thing's strength level it is because he is so durable Thing can't defeat him physically.
Durability feats
Withstanding Supernova heat
Withstand blasts from SS
Strength feats
Smacking Ben 10s of feet.
Originally posted by golem370
Those should still imo be many times stronger then Cap just like imo Thing was many times stronger. Dr Doom durability feat show him able to withstand incredible amounts of damage where as his strength feats do not show him being close to Thing's strength level. People usually assume Juggernaut and Thanos are in the same level of strength as Hulk or Thor why because they can stand toe to toe with those character not because they are seen lifting 10s or 100s of thousands of tons like Thor or the Hulk have done which is my point just because Doom can hang with Thing doesn't mean he close to Thing's strength level it is because he is so durable Thing can't defeat him physically.Durability feats
Withstanding Supernova heat
Withstand blasts from SSStrength feats
Smacking Ben 10s of feet.
Sorry, but posts like this is why you get insulted and very few people take you seriously. If it was pure durability it would have been a case of Doom simply getting ragdolled the entire time, but not getting KO'd. The fact that you can not seem to grasp this is beyond me. And the fact that you try to bring up Juggernaut and Thanos of all people in support of your argument is just facepalm-worthy.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Sorry, but posts like this is why you get insulted and very few people take you seriously. If it was pure durability it would have been a case of Doom simply getting ragdolled the entire time, but not getting KO'd. The fact that you can not seem to grasp this is beyond me. And the fact that you try to bring up Juggernaut and Thanos of all people in support of your argument is just facepalm-worthy.
He basically just admitted to knowingly putting Cap and WS against someone that he considers too durable for the Thing to even injure. I'd say that is fairly concrete proof that this was intended to be spite/bait.