Darth Maul and Savage Opress vs Revan and Darth Malak

Started by S_W_LeGenD6 pages

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
You don't need to be as strong as Revan to defeat Malak. The point was obvious.

OK

So who is the minimum needed to take on Darth Malak?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Well, Plo Koon sucks in canon then. Not impressed.
It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.
Darth Malak was also the ruler of an Empire. He had to prove his mettle time and again to maintain his throne.

Plo Koon, being a Jedi, wouldn't be tested like an Emperor would be.

Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?
If he was giving Revan migraines then how would a lesser Jedi cope with him?
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.
Which source recognizes Savage Opress as a master of the Force?
Here:
"A brutal training regime takes place. Unlike Jedi training, Sith training is fuelled by fear and hate. Force lightning is blasted from Dooku’s fingertips into Savage Opress’ body until he finally gains a crude mastery of the Force and proficiency with a lightsaber."

-Star Wars Insider 122

This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/

Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?

ILS taking his enemy to the slaughterhouse.

Proud of you.

👆

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
OK

So who is the minimum needed to take on Darth Malak?


Don't know. Probably someone like Savage Opress.

Originally posted by ILS
It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.

But his lack of performance in combat situations doesn't bodes well for him and his hype.

Originally posted by ILS
Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?

😬

Yoda is an exception; he have much greater credibility then Plo Koon.

Originally posted by ILS
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.

So?

This still doesn't proves that somebody inferior then Revan could handle Darth Malak.

Originally posted by ILS
Here:

The word "crude" implies lack of refinement and development. It is a useless statement to cite.

Originally posted by ILS
This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/


Good for him.

And these were his last words: "Brother, I am an unworthy apprentice. I'm not like you. I never was."

Originally posted by ILS
Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?

Yes.

- Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi at the same time
- Repelling a lightsaber-throw attack
- Defeating Bastilla Shan [1 on 1]
- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy
- Freezing Revan
- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning

Darth Malak also have excellent dueling skills.

Savage Opress doesn't have an answer for advanced Sith powers and neither does he stack up to an opponent as formidable as Darth Malak.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yes.

- Freezing Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi
- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy
- Freezing Revan
- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning


lel

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
lel

They are credible showings; meaningful in combat situations in particular.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD

Yoda is an exception; he have much greater credibility then Plo Koon.

A question, LeGend.

Why do you use 'have' instead of 'has' when it's so easily distinguishable and learned? Honest question.

What's your first language?

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
A question, LeGend.

Why do you use 'have' instead of 'has' when it's so easily distinguishable and learned? Honest question.


My bad

Originally posted by Col. Valerian
What's your first language?

Urdu

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
They are credible showings; meaningful in combat situations in particular.

They sure are. They also aren't impressive enough to place Malak above Savage.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
They sure are. They also aren't impressive enough to place Malak above Savage.

😬

Savage Opress never acquired such abilities.

Malak > Savage. He drains and lightnings him to death.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
- Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi at the same time

A Padawan and a random, a Non-Force Sensitive random at that.

- Repelling a lightsaber-throw attack

I think this goes without saying as being the definition of average for anyone worth mentioning.

- Defeating Bastilla Shan [1 on 1]

Bastila is virtually featless until the string of losses she has at the end of this. She killed one random Dark Jedi, and that's pretty much it.

- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy

Which is just TK, something, frankly, Savage outclasses Malak in by miles.

- Freezing Revan

The same amnesiac that doesn't remember anything more than a week of Jedi training.

- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning

None of which actually prove superiority in anything, unless you're also going to say that every random with Lighting and Drain is above Savage, and in that case, you could just concede to ILS now.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Urdu
Are you Indian like DMB?

Originally posted by ILS
It was in Legends. And no, Plo Koon is one of the most powerful Jedi ever. He factually doesn't suck.
Okay? Yoda didn't rule an Empire, is he worse than Malak now?
He lost his jaw to Darth Revan, and lost to Revan despite Revan running a massive gauntlet beforehand, Malak having a massive nexus to draw on and weaken Revan, and Malak having multiple Jedi to revive himself with. That doesn't preclude the possibility that there could be people better than Malak who are worse than Revan.
Here:

This was early into his training with Dooku, and before he even began training with Maul where he saw more refinement. This was also during a time period where Savage grew "more powerful with every passing day", to the point Dooku felt his power grow from across the galaxy and deemed him "a threat to us all". In other words, Savage has plenty of sources fellating how powerful he is.

http://comicvine.gamespot.com/forums/gen-discussion-1/savage-opress-respect-thread-1683541/

Now, do you have some kind of conclusive or even fairly reasonable case for Malak being better than Savage? Other than accolades and unrelated accomplishments like ruling an empire?

ILS be like

an Legend:

But his lack of performance in combat situations doesn't bodes well for him and his hype.
So are you saying accolades don't mean shit?
Yoda is an exception; he have much greater credibility then Plo Koon.
This is what you call double standards. Malak can't be better than one Jedi because he faced the tribulation of ruling an empire but not another. If you concede that it doesn't necessarily make Malak better than Yoda, you concede that it doesn't necessarily make him better than anyone, aside from those within that Empire at least.

And it doesn't, unless you can point what Plo Koon-tier beings Malak was superior to within his empire. And don't say Bandon you ****.

So?

This still doesn't proves that somebody inferior then Revan could handle Darth Malak.

Why are you asking me for proof? It was your assertion that the gap between Revan and Malak is so small that there isn't one person who could fit in between it, despite the fact there's obviously quite a large gap given that Revan defeated Malak with horrific circumstances.
The word "crude" implies lack of refinement and development. It is a useless statement to cite.
It suggests Savage's mastery is still raw and unrefined, not that the mastery isn't there. So he's still a master even if he's raw in his application. And like I said, he would go on to become much more refined when he trained under Maul; I'd refer you to him decapitating the entire leadership of the Black Sun with one lightsaber throw, stopping a knife millimetres from Maul's head (which Maul had full confidence in him to do), coordinating telekinetic attacks with Maul, and shattering the supposedly impenetrable metal Beskar which was fashioned into a prison cell, which should logically be Beskar in one of it's toughest moulds.
Good for him.

And these were his last words: "Brother, I am an unworthy apprentice. I'm not like you. I never was."

Okay? In what way does this prove Savage is weaker than Malak? You keep bringing up pieces of "evidence", to use the term loosely, that make no real link between Savage and Malak.
- Freezing (powerful) Bastilla Shan and Carth Onasi at the same time
- Repelling a lightsaber-throw attack
- Defeating Bastilla Shan [1 on 1]
- Trapping Revan in a whirlwind of energy
- Freezing Revan
- Force Drain powers
- Force Lightning
The only thing there that could possibly be relevant is Malak rekting Revan. What had Revan done up to that point to suggest parity to Savage, who as I said, has shattered Beskar? The same Savage who also before his prime held Dooku and Ventress by their throats against his their will (granted he was enraged, but he was well before his prime, and Ventress/Dooku combined >>> Malak).
Darth Malak also have excellent dueling skills.
Better than Savage's?
Savage Opress doesn't have an answer for advanced Sith powers and neither does he stack up to an opponent as formidable as Darth Malak.
That remains to be proven. All you've done is list that Malak has Force Lightning and Drain. When has he successfully applied either power against someone even remotely comparable to Savage in a combat scenario?

Originally posted by Lord Stark
ILS be like
Originally posted by |King Joker|
Are you Indian like DMB?

Urdu's spoken in Pakistan

ILS is taking SWL to the curb.