Originally posted by Omega Vision👆
I don't know if the Wildlings have the numbers to take Winterfell. I mean, how many warriors escaped on the boats? 1000 at most?
We saw what happened when armoured knights on horses met wildlings in battle.
It didn't go well for the wildlings, and that wildling force was far larger.
Originally posted by NemeBro
👆We saw what happened when armoured knights on horses met wildlings in battle.
It didn't go well for the wildlings, and that wildling force was far larger.
Originally posted by Robtard"When Sansa makes mistakes that lead to the deaths of other characters she's a stupid *****, when Olly knowingly commits treason and literally stabs his Lord Commander in the heart it's not his fault".
Yeah, Mouth went there.But blaming Olly is a bit much, he's a kid, he witnessed his parents being killed along with many others he knew and he had a bunch of adults pissing (keeping with the theme) into his ear that Jon was a traitor and that Jon was helping those who killed his parents. Ultimately the fault lies with Thorne and the other adults who had a hand in Jon's death.
It's hypocritical to blame Sansa for her stupid actions (and I'm pretty sure you have) but pardon Olly, who was about as old, of his outright treason.
Originally posted by Rebel95Oh wait you're right, I forgot that in Game of Thrones the person who wins is whoever the narrative favors, since the show's writing is so bad.
What do you think will happen then? Obviously Jon Snow and the wildlings won't all die like Stannis' army
Though really, that just proves my point. Ramsay is powered by the full strength of D&D's pen, he's going to kill them all with 40 great men.
Originally posted by NemeBro
"When Sansa makes mistakes that lead to the deaths of other characters she's a stupid *****, when Olly knowingly commits treason and literally stabs his Lord Commander in the heart it's not his fault".It's hypocritical to blame Sansa for her stupid actions (and I'm pretty sure you have) but pardon Olly, who was about as old, of his outright treason.
Not sure I'd compare Sansa's whiny Veruca Salt outbursts that cost the life of her father that set off a war that then cost thousands of lives as being comparable to Olly's plight, but maybe that's just me.
-Sansa threw a hissy fit and then [unknowingly] betrayed her father because she couldn't get everything she wanted, after he reasoned with her
-Olly watched his family/people get slaughtered by Wildlings, who then Jon gave a free pass and Olly had adults telling him Jon was a traitor, feeding into his shaky emotions
Apples to fish comparison
Originally posted by Rebel954. Jon's cousins (or whatever their familial relations are) swoop in on their dragons, burn some shit, give him the third dragon and they proceed to westeros and pwn everyone's butthole.
What do you think will happen then? Obviously Jon Snow and the wildlings won't all die like Stannis' army.
I think there's three possibilities here:
1: Jon rallies the northerners still loyal to the starks to fight with him and the wildlings
2: The white walkers show up in the middle of the battle
3: The knights of the Vale show up at Littlefingers command
Daenary's would be Jon's aunt, if the theory is true, which it most likely is
And while we're at it, the other less known theory
Spoiler:
is the Tyrion is Daenary's half-bro and uncle to Jon, since the mad king Aerys had a hardon for Tywin's wife and impregnated her with Tyrion, which is the main reason Tywin hated Tyrion, he was a constant reminder to Tuwin that he was cockholded.
Originally posted by Rebel95A lot of that theory hinges on double meanings of Tywins lines to Tyrion about his lineage, so if that theory ever turns out to be true (I personally hope it doesn't) I think Tywin would have to know.
I've heard that theory about Tyrion before. If it is true, I doubt Tywin knew
Originally posted by RobtardExcept that Ollie actively chose to collude with the traitors and directly betrayed Jon Snow by stabbing him in the fuking heart.
Not sure I'd compare Sansa's whiny Veruca Salt outbursts that cost the life of her father that set off a war that then cost thousands of lives as being comparable to Olly's plight, but maybe that's just me.-Sansa threw a hissy fit and then [unknowingly] betrayed her father because she couldn't get everything she wanted, after he reasoned with her
-Olly watched his family/people get slaughtered by Wildlings, who then Jon gave a free pass and Olly had adults telling him Jon was a traitor, feeding into his shaky emotions
Apples to fish comparison
By comparison, Sansa unknowingly and naively made choices that indirectly influenced the death of her father. Not to mention that she and every sensible character including Tywin were under the impression that Joffrey would forgive Ned Stark after an earnest apology. She acted with no harmful or ill intent.
So ollie is a racist backstabbing untrustworthy serial killer and yet Sansa is somehow worse...
Stabbing one guy does not make one a serial killer, especially when like 6 other guys are helping you. It doesn't even strictly make you super unlikable to the audience. People still like Show Jaime after he killed his really nice cousin. I don't know why they do but they do.
None of this is to say I like Olly. I think it is hilarious that this poor kid's parent were murdered and eaten by crazy nutcases...yet no one can muster a shit to give about him. He just comes across as a little prick who people want to see get the Joffrey treatment but the show obviously thinks is a sympathetic, nuanced character that the viewers should want to see get a happy ending. I mean I'm sure some do but the amount of hate for Olly is astounding. That these show runners can take a sympathetic backstory like "my parents were killed by cannibalistic savages " and fail to endear someone with that backstory to the audience.
Originally posted by AuraAngelHe also killed ygritte, that's two beloved characters constituting a pattern. serial killer is kind of a stretch but it's making a point. Ollie's crimes are pre-meditated whereas Sansa's are borne from credulousness.
Stabbing one guy does not make one a serial killer, especially when like 6 other guys are helping you. It doesn't even strictly make you super unlikable to the audience. People still like Show Jaime after he killed his really nice cousin. I don't know why they do but they do.None of this is to say I like Olly. I think it is hilarious that this poor kid's parent were murdered and eaten by crazy nutcases...yet no one can muster a shit to give about him. He just comes across as a little prick who people want to see get the Joffrey treatment but the show obviously thinks is a sympathetic, nuanced character that the viewers should want to see get a happy ending. I mean I'm sure some do but the amount of hate for Olly is astounding. That these show runners can take a sympathetic backstory like "my parents were killed by cannibalistic savages " and fail to endear someone with that backstory to the audience.
Originally posted by Robtard
Yeah, Mouth went there.But blaming Olly is a bit much, he's a kid, he witnessed his parents being killed along with many others he knew and he had a bunch of adults pissing (keeping with the theme) into his ear that Jon was a traitor and that Jon was helping those who killed his parents. Ultimately the fault lies with Thorne and the other adults who had a hand in Jon's death.
tormund and ygritte led the raid on his village in which his parents were butchered for meat in front of him. it's not like he's just being prejudice toward everyone north of the wall like ser allester clearly is. he's pissed off because he knows that the girl who murdered his father was jon snow's lover, and the man who led that raiding party is jon snow's BFF.
unfortunately most people are incapable of viewing this objectively, as they already invested their delicate emotions in jon snow. imho the book did a much better job of leaving the NW's actions ethically ambiguous.
Originally posted by AuraAngelMaybe I am being too harsh on the character but there's just something about him that I can't sympathize with. I just don't give a single fuk about his dead parents. I disagree on the Sansa part though, I feel like her faults early on are entirely believable and common of most girls who've grown up in that kind of pampered royal environment. She's grown a lot since then too I think.
Ygritte was killed during a battle. I'd hardly call that cold blooded murder. She's also a murderer so there is that.Sansa in the show is less sympathetic than Olly though. It's hard to feel sorry for a character so colossally stupid that she doesn't even feel like a real human.
Originally posted by Bashar Teg
tormund and ygritte led the raid on his village in which his parents were butchered for meat in front of him. it's not like he's just being prejudice toward everyone north of the wall like ser allester clearly is. he's pissed off because he knows that the girl who murdered his father was jon snow's lover, and the man who led that raiding party is jon snow's BFF.unfortunately most people are incapable of viewing this objectively, as they already invested their delicate emotions in jon snow. imho the book did a much better job of leaving the NW's actions ethically ambiguous.
^
This likely the problem, it's not the "betrayal" in of itself, it's who he betrayed as Jon is a fan favorite
Originally posted by Firefly218
Maybe I am being too harsh on the character but there's just something about him that I can't sympathize with. I just don't give a single fuk about his dead parents. I disagree on the Sansa part though, I feel like her faults early on are entirely believable and common of most girls who've grown up in that kind of pampered royal environment. She's grown a lot since then too I think.
If you can't sympathize for a child who watched his family butchered and the mindset that child would be in, then that's really your short coming, not the character's.
Sansa's was a complete fool early on, to the point of being unlikeable, she's grown and become a much better character now and people can (I can at least) sympathize with her. She's no longer the "I want, I want!" whiny POS that got her father killed and started a war due to being an imbecile.