Luke Skywalker (FotJ) vs. Valkorion

Started by S_W_LeGenD7 pages

@MythLord

I take that as a concession.

Really? I thought that was an invitation to his birthday party?

Lmao

@Ursumeles

Done with TK part?

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@[B]Ursumeles

Done with TK part? [/B]


If you still care for the debate, I'll answer later.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
If you still care for the debate, I'll answer later.

That is why I asked.

Awaiting your response.

Holy cow, does Legend seriously think that the ceiling Vitiate brought down is comparable in size to Vader's fortress, which was passing storm clouds? And yeah, it was on a mountain - but its structure is still stated to blend in with the beaches, .i.e. it ranges all the way down the mountain. Regardless, it's undisputedly larger than the hallway we see in TOR.

I mean, it's not just the size difference, it's also the fact that Luke crushes the entire fortress to dust at the same time and then hurls it all into the ocean, while Vitiate just fragments the ceiling. I have no idea how you could justify the latter being more impressive.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Holy cow, does Legend seriously think that the ceiling Vitiate brought down is comparable in size to Vader's fortress, which was passing storm clouds? And yeah, it was on a mountain - but its structure is still stated to blend in with the beaches, .i.e. it ranges all the way down the mountain. Regardless, it's undisputedly larger than the hallway we see in TOR.

I mean, it's not just the size difference, it's also the fact that Luke crushes the entire fortress to dust at the same time and then hurls it all into the ocean, while Vitiate just fragments the ceiling. I have no idea how you could justify the latter being more impressive.


Comprehension issues or trolling? Take your pick.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Comprehension issues or trolling? Take your pick.

I love how you just say "comprehension issues" but then fail to actually explain what those issues are, or say anything that suggests you have a brain hidden in there.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@[B]MythLord

I take that as a concession. [/B]

Do whatever you'd like; I don't care, tbh.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
No problem. Points will do.

Jaina Solo's perception changes nothing. People get stuff wrong all the time. Jaina Solo is just as fallible. Concentrate on the actual feat. It was a dropship class vessel.

More importantly, Turbolasers have different specifications. Their potency varies accordingly.

You cannot expect Jacen Solo to deflect firepower of a Harrower-class or more advanced Starship, do you?

As for all that power-progression, provide solid evidence of it.

It is hyperbole unless you expect Luke Skywalker to be strong enough to affect or resist a cosmic blackhole. Not even Abeloth could do that.

Provide evidence then.

Question should be how big Darth Vader's fortress was.

Problem: We don't have an idea.

As for examples:

1. Vaylin destroyed the main power station of a metropolis during her pursuit of the Outlander. The entire structure was massive.
2. An unidentified Jedi Master collapsed [B]two
(damaged) buildings simultaneously. This resulted in a mountain of rubble in the region.

I am sure there are more examples.

@Nephthys

Any comments?

Kyp Durron struggled as much as Luke Skywalker.

You perceive Kyp Durron to be above Darth Vader? Many do not. [/B]


I'll search for quotes soon, but I am not sure if I can next week.

1. He is also implied to be more powerful than all Jedi, bar Luke and Kyp, in NJO, only to grow vastly in his journey and every day in LotF.

2. When you think that it is hyperbole, than also statements like Calkorion being "godlike'.
Also, it implies at least that nearly nothing can affect him-not even UnuThul, whichs raw power is > Valkorions imo. I'll try to find his best feats, as well.

3. Ellimist did.

4. Luke was also vastly more powerful, than guys who could destroy starcaises mid-battle.

5. You can't use the feat to lowball Luke. Also, in JA was implied, that Kyp's raw power > Vader's raw power.

Why is this even a thread? Valkorion's going to get crushed 1v1 by the Outlander in KotET, anyways.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
1. He is also implied to be more powerful than all Jedi, bar Luke and Kyp, in NJO, only to grow vastly in his journey and every day in LotF.

I need to see evidence of such power progression.

I am not denying his 'power progression' with passage of time. But the statements like "only to grow vastly in his journey" need to be substantiated.

Did he surpass Kyp Durron for example? Because many characters experience 'power progression' with passage of time. If Jacen Solo was growing in power, same was true for Kyp Durron.

---

And even if Jacen Solo (supposedly) vastly grew in power, where does he stand in the big picture?

Revan vastly grew in power since the era of Mandalorian Wars (confirmed in the novel), but he could not contend with the Emperor regardless of that.

A lesson to be learned from the aforementioned example is that statements like "only to grow vastly in his journey" do not tell us much.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
2. When you think that it is hyperbole, than also statements like Calkorion being "godlike'.
Also, it implies at least that nearly nothing can affect him-not even UnuThul, whichs raw power is > Valkorions imo. I'll try to find his best feats, as well.

My assumption is grounded in the (known) limitations of the character in question. We notice Luke Skywalker struggling to manipulate a Vong creation. A cosmic Blackhole is much larger and eclipses any Vong creation in power. How could Luke affect a cosmic Blackhole when an infinitely inferior Vong creation stretched him to his limits?

Only one conclusion makes sense, that that revelation was hyperbole.

Valkorion is godlike in the sense that he is an immortal being with extraordinary raw power and cannot be stopped through conventional methods. Even if you destroy his avatar, he will make another and resume his exploits. A lone Jedi or Sith cannot hope to defeat him, and would be overwhelmed in a prolonged struggle.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
3. Ellimist did.

He did not provide it yet.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
4. Luke was also vastly more powerful, than guys who could destroy starcaises mid-battle.

Your point?

Originally posted by Ursumeles
5. You can't use the feat to lowball Luke. Also, in JA was implied, that Kyp's raw power > Vader's raw power.

My intention is not to lowball Luke but it is true that his greatest showing is matched.

If Kyp Durron is indeed more powerful than Darth Vader, than this fact should be brought to our attention.

NOTE: I am asking for quotes because I do not have the time to read so many novels.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
@Nephthys

Any comments?

Whats this about?

Luke decisively.

I can´t write a large answer now, but here is one quote:
"A platoon of black-armored GAG commandos rushed through a hatchway, streaming fire from T-21 repeating blasters; Luke glanced at a nearby shuttle and sent it tumbling into their line."
-LotF Invincible

Re: Luke Skywalker (FotJ) vs. Valkorion

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Neutral ground, Luke is not jobbing, no spirit form for Valkorion.

1. Force
2. Sabers
3. All-out

Luke wins BTW

ikr

why does this thread even exist?

Originally posted by Tondemonai
Force only is a solid win for Valkorion

All-out Valkorion

His teleportation will keep him out of Luke's reach, and his Force superiority is large enough that he can pull the majority


Originally posted by MS Warehouse
There's no evidence Luke can get to him in the fractions of a second before Vakorion one shots him. And if he does get to him, he'll do what he did to Arcann and deflect his lightsaber with the force and his arms.
😘 😘 😘 For such people.

@Ursumeles

That feat is impressive. However, even Aryn Leener has a comparable showing.

Originally posted by Ursumeles
😘 😘 😘 For such people.

Same expression is valid for some comments in favor of Luke Skywalker in this thread.

Which of Aryn's showings is comparable? I've looked in her RT, and there is nothing that Kenobi couldn't replicate, not to speak off Luke.