Originally posted by cdtm
I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).
I actually wouldn't put Surfer on the level of PC Kryptonians. They have far better feats of physical strength, speed, and durability. I think PC Supes could take Surfer out with probably one punch.
But that's not really a knock on Surfer..it's just some Silver Age heroes had hilariously vast levels of power.
Originally posted by riv6672
And simple weaknesses.
This is true, they had to make up for the massive power somehow.
But yeah, Surfer could potentially win. It's another one of those things where a person has the potential to win if their opponent just stands there and doesn't try to fight back. Surfer could generate kryptonite to win, but he would be KO'ed before he could even conceive of the thought. That is, of course, assuming the characters use their speed.
Originally posted by cdtm
I don't know, that's a LOT of heralds.Silver Surfer alone I'd put on a PC Kryptonian's level (Boo all you want, Norrin was crossing galaxies and evolving races, and beating skyfather+/Abstract Uni-Lord when Superman was stuck on Earth post crisis and needed a GL ride to travel).
Are you sure you want to compare who has beaten who? Surfer was amped as hell against unilord and it's non canon anyway.
Surfer couldn't even beat Henshaw when they met. Forget about Superman.
Originally posted by Surtur
This is true, they had to make up for the massive power somehow.But yeah, Surfer could potentially win. It's another one of those things where a person has the potential to win if their opponent just stands there and doesn't try to fight back. Surfer could generate kryptonite to win, but he would be KO'ed before he could even conceive of the thought. That is, of course, assuming the characters use their speed.
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.
The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.
Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.
You mean a Superman clone, a Guardian clone, an Orion clone etc? A Guardian alone would take all these heralds.
The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.
If only the heralds were that powerful. If we are using high feat only, how about planet chucking, dwarf star carrying, going toe to toe with Time Trapper and Infinite Man Mon-El? How about sun eater destroying Wildfire? How about black hole sealing Cosmic Boy? Even a low level Legion member like Sun Boy can turn sun red and back into yellow FFS.
Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
None of these heralds are faster than Spider-Man. Flying in space doesn't makes you a Speedster.
Sorry, CBR version of heralds don't exist.
What's Mon El going to do against Destroyer?
And spidey speed? Are you serious? Surfer, at least has very definitive speed feats well beyond Spidey.. Rescueing female Nova from a Skrull prison, surrounded by layers of vibranium and wired to explode if anyone breaches the walls. Meaning he had to not only force his way past the vibranium, but get in and out faster then the signal takes to trigger the bombs.
Originally posted by cdtm
What's Mon El going to do against Destroyer?
Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.
And spidey speed? Are you serious? Surfer, at least has very definitive speed feats well beyond Spidey.. Rescueing female Nova from a Skrull prison, surrounded by layers of vibranium and wired to explode if anyone breaches the walls. Meaning he had to not only force his way past the vibranium, but get in and out faster then the signal takes to trigger the bombs.
Yes, his board is very fast. He himself? Spidey blitzes the shit out of him every time they "fight".
It's like saying Green Lanterns are so fast!!!! And trust me, GLs have flying feats which shits all over Surfer's.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.
Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
I always just thought it was that Darkseid had some massively powerful minions.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.
Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
Originally posted by abhilegend
Better than Thing did? That's why White Witch is there.Yes, his board is very fast. He himself? Spidey blitzes the shit out of him every time they "fight".
It's like saying Green Lanterns are so fast!!!! And trust me, GLs have flying feats which shits all over Surfer's.
Norrin had to grab her, though. That takes personal speed. 😉
But lets assume I'm in agreement with you. Norrin's still more then capable of blitzing on the board, as his "Surfer brigade" was doing in the Uni Lord Saga.
His physical charge attack has shaken high heralds and up. Richard Rider, for example.
But even if Mon El could crush heralds in speed, the sheer amount of heralds means they could wipe out White Which and lesser characters while he's taking on whomever. Black holes, energy attacks, distintigration beams.. Scorched Earth. And then it's a few heavy hitters vs the heralds.
With prep, yeah, Brainiac Five sets up a force field, white witch prepares some spells. Without any prep at all, they're screwed.
Originally posted by cdtm
Well, look at how much trouble they had with Darkseid's minion's.The Legion can take just about anybody, but they usually need some kind of prep to do it. Here, it's a straight up power play, and the Legion doesn't have near enough heavy hitters to deal with a team of black hole creating, sun destroying? ftl moving heralds.
Their only shot is an alpha strike from.White Witch or something, and that's a lot less likely then being alpha striked themselves, given heralds all have roughly flt capability (Wouldn't be much use to Galactus if they didn't).
Wait a second how is this "alpha strike" supposed to work for the heralds. Are the dozen plus members of Legion who are faster with better reflexes tha the 11 heralds (and not all of them are fast BTW - speed feats for Destroyer please) supposed to sit on their hands and do nothing while the heralds destroy their friends? XS alone could remove most in danger before an attack struck them. Mon-el has greater speed feats than SS (the fastest herald) and Thunder on panel was shown faster than him (thunder actually has the speed feats being the one to eneact a strategy that required speed and being chosen above Mon-el AND XS). Andromeda being Damxamite also is close.
POOR LOGIC
Originally posted by cdtm
Norrin had to grab her, though. That takes personal speed. 😉
Yes, he can grab someone. Is that supposed to be shocking?
But lets assume I'm in agreement with you. Norrin's still more then capable of blitzing on the board, as his "Surfer brigade" was doing in the Uni Lord Saga.
Unilord saga is non canon. How many times does that has to be told to you?
His physical charge attack has shaken high heralds and up. Richard Rider, for example.
Since when is Nova a high herald? Not to mention he attacked Nova from behind.
But even if Mon El could crush heralds in speed, the sheer amount of heralds means they could wipe out White Which and lesser characters while he's taking on whomever. Black holes, energy attacks, distintigration beams.. Scorched Earth. And then it's a few heavy hitters vs the heralds.
That's BS. They have zero hopes of breaching Brainiac 5 force field. And yes, it can endure black holes just fine.
Destroyer when a herald was stalemated by Thing FFS.
With prep, yeah, Brainiac Five sets up a force field, white witch prepares some spells. Without any prep at all, they're screwed.
Haha, this is just mindless wanking of heralds. Nobody short of skyfather is beating a fully fledged Legion team.
Originally posted by beatboks
Wait a second how is this "alpha strike" supposed to work for the heralds. Are the dozen plus members of Legion who are faster with better reflexes tha the 11 heralds (and not all of them are fast BTW - speed feats for Destroyer please) supposed to sit on their hands and do nothing while the heralds destroy their friends? XS alone could remove most in danger before an attack struck them. Mon-el has greater speed feats than SS (the fastest herald) and Thunder on panel was shown faster than him (thunder actually has the speed feats being the one to eneact a strategy that required speed and being chosen above Mon-el AND XS). Andromeda being Damxamite also is close.POOR LOGIC
XS, Flash's relative? Faster then Norrin?
Nooo. No no no. Not even close. Silver Surfer has speed feats on par with Flash Prime, my friend, let alone one of the many lesser Flash family offshoots.
Anyways, the rules said to pick a team, so I asume we can't mix and match between eras. So, how many big guns can we stack on any given version, who could survive those heralds unleashing everything they have at the bell?