Talzin Runs The Sith Sorcerer Gauntlet

On Dathomir, at full strength, she would have bested him. There is a reason Sidious could not simply storm Dathomir and take her on himself, he clearly viewed it as a colossal risk. The only thing that changed to make him journey there was her revival, it stands to reason than that it weakened her...

It wasn't about Sidious being able to win, it was about him being unable to permanently kill her. Normally, she would have just misted away like she did in S4, but she couldn't because Maul was there.

Sidious needed to 1.) Get her to physically manifest. 2.) Get her in situation where she can't just escape.

IDK why he didn't go for orbital bombardment.

...because she would have escaped.

Of the whole planet

She can traverse space bro.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
It wasn't about Sidious being able to win, it was about him being unable to permanently kill her. Normally, she would have just misted away like she did in S4, but she couldn't because Maul was there.

Sidious needed to 1.) Get her to physically manifest. 2.) Get her in situation where she can't just escape.

Indeed, I believe however that her ability to twist the battle where she pleases (like she couldn't with Maul) or give herself time to prepare, would result in her victory.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I doubt she could have bested him, especially considering she was afraid of TPM Palpatine when they first met, but yeah Dathomir isn't even that powerful a nexus, all it would have done is negate her weakened condition.

EDIT: Correction, it her followers who were afraid of him. But I believe Palpatine promised to make her his subordinate.

He promised to make her his right hand... And then didn't.

I guess you need to focus on why he didn't, he chose her weaker son instead. The reason is quite clearly because she's close enough to his equal that under the right conditions she could end his life without a second thought.

That's quite a big assumption. 🙂

Originally posted by Beniboybling
That's quite a big assumption. 🙂

Given he wanted to survive whichever apprentice he chose, please give me a single other explanation for why he turned down the most powerful dark force user alive in the galaxy...

Originally posted by Selenial
He promised to make her his right hand... And then didn't.

I guess you need to focus on why he didn't, he chose her weaker son instead. The reason is quite clearly because she's close enough to his equal that under the right conditions she could end his life without a second thought.

...or it's because Maul was incredibly special, and just never lived up to his full potential.

✅

Noting that Sidious only cast her aside after he "realised Maul's potential" - indicating he had every intention to make her his subordinate prior to that revelation.

Originally posted by NewGuy01
...or it's because Maul was incredibly special, and just never lived up to his full potential.

.... And if Talzin was his right hand, how does that exclude him from having Maul trained as his as well?

Originally posted by Beniboybling
✅

Noting that Sidious only cast her aside after he "realised Maul's potential" - indicating he had every intention to make her his subordinate prior to that revelation.

Maul's potential as a perfectly obedient near-slave to his will, yes.

Originally posted by Selenial
.... And if Talzin was his right hand, how does that exclude him from having Maul trained as his as well?

Maul's potential as a perfectly obedient near-slave to his will, yes.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Because he intended to make Maul his right hand in her place...Nope, as his successor. Although that's beside the point I was making.

What? Palpatine never intended to have a successor, he believed himself to be the pinnacle of the Sith and made sure he never could be overthrown. It's why he had Ventress eliminated 😬

And you're failing to understand, having Maul and Talzin and having just Maul makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to how effective Maul is, therefore his choice to leave Talzin was more the reason he left her, not maul. Bear in mind it took years to have Maul fully trained, if he did not fear Talzin as you claim, he could merely have had her until Maul came into his own and then disposed of her, but he did not.

Originally posted by Selenial
What? Palpatine never intended to have a successor, he believed himself to be the pinnacle of the Sith and made sure he never could be overthrown. It's why he had Ventress eliminated 😬

Regardless, according to Witwer he was intended as a legit successor, and at the very least there is plenty of proof that Sidious trained him as a full-fledged Sith Lord, not a mindless slave.

And you're failing to understand, having Maul and Talzin and having just Maul makes absolutely no difference whatsoever to how effective Maul is, therefore his choice to leave Talzin was more the reason he left her, not maul. Bear in mind it took years to have Maul fully trained, if he did not fear Talzin as you claim, he could merely have had her until Maul came into his own and then disposed of her, but he did not.

Secondly of course allowing Maul to remain in Talzin's clutches, trained up to be loyal to her (his mother) and not in the Sith philosophy or the Sith ways, would make a significant difference to how effective he is. It would remove the possibility of Maul becoming his apprentice, full stop.

At the end of the day Palpatine is a proponent of the Rule of Two, he only needs one other half, and he chose Maul.

Before I reply, quote that for me since the quote I'm thinking of doesn't support your argument in the slightest mmm

I assume you mean the quote from Witwer:

"You don't just pick a guy because he can do cool flips and swing a sword good. You choose a guy who is brilliant and gifted in so many ways, physically and mentally, and can carry on the Sith tradition proudly. A thuggish hitman would be a hindrance when trying to take over the galaxy. You need someone who can work with you and to whom you can pass the baton when the time comes.

And that's a theme in the Star Wars saga as a whole. It's so very much about Sidious trying to find that successor. He thinks he's found that person in Darth Maul, but then Maul is cut down."

http://www.hollywood.com/tv/sam-witwer-on-darth-maul-s-clone-wars-fate-he-s-playing-a-long-game-q-a-57698611/

Originally posted by Beniboybling
I assume you mean the quote from Witwer:

"You don't just pick a guy because he can do cool flips and swing a sword good. You choose a guy who is brilliant and gifted in so many ways, physically and mentally, and can carry on the Sith tradition proudly. A thuggish hitman would be a hindrance when trying to take over the galaxy. You need someone who can work with you and to whom you can pass the baton when the time comes.

And that's a theme in the Star Wars saga as a whole. It's so very much about Sidious trying to find that successor. He thinks he's found that person in Darth Maul, but then Maul is cut down."

http://www.hollywood.com/tv/sam-witwer-on-darth-maul-s-clone-wars-fate-he-s-playing-a-long-game-q-a-57698611/

Excuse me while I don't give a shit about Witwer's opinion 🙂

"Darth Maul, Darth Tyranus, Darth Vader. Each useful in their own way, each easy to replace when his purpose has reached it's end."

"Darth Bane's power has been passed down for a thousand years. I vow to be it's last recipient."

"While I may choose apprentices, I will never choose a successor."

There are many other quotes like this one, I just lack the patience to bother since every single one of these overrides Witwer's opinion. They're direct quotes from Palpatine in the Book of Sith.

Yeah, except those quotes contradict all of the canonical material we have on Sidious. What it really boils down to is that canon and legends differ strongly on Sidious' goals.

And SoD falls into the canon bandwagon, so... :tehee:

Originally posted by NewGuy01
Yeah, except those quotes contradict all of the canonical material we have on Sidious. What it really boils down to is that canon and legends differ strongly on Sidious' goals.

And SoD falls into the canon bandwagon, so... :tehee:

We should differentiate Legends Palpatine from Canon Palpatine while considering these matters, IMO.

But if there is something in Canon content that implies that Palpatine had changed his mind about having an successor (i.e. not wanting one), then that evidence should be highlighted.