Originally posted by celeyhyga17
He never uses them. Said so himself. Very trustworthy fellow that Abhi.😏
Originally posted by cdtm
He's Indian, isn't he?I don't want to paint Indians with a broad brush, but the friends I made in college bragged like it was a point of pride that they'd rip you off at the first chance. 🙂
👆
Originally posted by TheHulkster
That's far different from Spectre getting manhandled by Vandal Savage/Cain or having to repeatedly battle and be rendered unconscious in Soul War (by The Trans right)?Or getting bound in chains by a wizard or struggling against an amped up Captain Marvel, crying in pain from a bat kick, struggling/losing against Phantom Stranger, struggling against Shazam. Being beaten or struggling against Eclipso.
Spectre operates at a significantly lower level than LT and that is why his fans must toss out the "as powerful as God wants him to be" excuse.
Savage used the spear of destiny against the Spectre which has been used as a plot device since the early 80s against the Spectre.
Also, the trans are a cosmic collective consciousness who are the embodiment of an entire universe (imaginal realm).
The wizard instance is a legitimate low showing even though it had more do with the wizard praying on Hal's dark thoughts rather than overpowering him directly.
It was outright stated that Spectre wanted Bruce to feel better about himself.
I don't recall pre-Flashpoint Spectre losing against the Stranger? In DoV he turned him into a mouse, and PS was part of thousands of magical of beings who were amping captain marvel. In the first Spectre/Eclipso wrath of God arc he was portrayed as being inferior, in Blackest Night as well.
He was weakened against Shazam, and even then he drained him along with his every artifact of power like nothing.
He was only ever beaten by Eclipso when the latter was at full power iirc. all of Eclipso's other showings is him using 1 out of a thousand black diamonds which was cut off. It was depicted on panel how the essence of the universe was unable to beat full-power Eclipso, only imprison him.
I agree that Spectre is below LT, but none of these are low showings (apart from the all stars instance, because Wizard is in fact a shitty character). Admittedly though, he has worse lows than the ones you've mentioned.
On average, Spectre operates on a lower tier than LT -- but that's mostly due to him being portrayed more as an earthly force who judges lowly criminals and whathaveyou.
Spectre steps up to LT level, however, when the threat requires it. We've seen this quite a few times in DC's history -- during COIE, during Zero Hour, against the GEB, at the end of FC: Revelations, etc. etc.
There's no need to mention lows... That aren't really lows, though. That just shows an ignorance of the character(s).
It has been literally stated that the Logoz is restricting Spectre's power at all times.
And LT has showings like fleeing from Korvac, struggling against Nebulos and getting repelled alongside several other abstracts by a machine from an alternate Reed, Protege with his powers stacked with Eternity and Beyonder getting stomped by a single Celestial, getting killed by three Beyonders etc. Heck Adam Warlock who was specifically stated to be more powerful than previous LT wasn't able to create a single universe from scratch. Even Hal Spectre was doing that with ease.
LT doesn't has Spectre's low showings but he doesn't has his high showings either.
LT is all hype.
Originally posted by abhilegend
LT doesn't has Spectre's low showings but he doesn't has his high showings either.
Originally posted by abhilegend
It has been literally stated that the Logoz is restricting Spectre's power at all times.
Originally posted by Cogito
Agreed. In fact, the IG incident is the only time the LT has really been noteworthy.
Yeah, and Spectre overpowered IG, CCU, UN alongwith several other artifacts when he separated DC and Marvel universes. Far better showing than LT's showing against IG in fact.
Also Thanos with a fraction of God's power owned LT like a feeb.
Spectre can fight God's literal power aka Michael Demiurgos and at least put a fight and make him say that Spectre was a worthy opponent.
Scan?
On a phone so can't post it. It's from Spectre v4 4.
Originally posted by abhilegendThat was only the case when Hal was a n00b with the power of Spectre. Once he became adept with said power, and opened himself up to its infinite possibilities, he was pretty damned unbounded.
It has been literally stated that the Logoz is restricting Spectre's power at all times.
I've always used the Amalgam Comics as a reference point. In that comic the Spectre and the LT was for all intent and purposes portrayed as equals, people can take that for what they will. Personally I think that shows quite clearly that the companies or w/e views them as within the same power range (when required).
He was always connected to the Logoz. He just learned to access it more fully as the story progressed. Here is one instance(of many):
http://i.imgur.com/HchV2J8.jpg
Originally posted by Galan007
He was always connected to the Logoz. He just learned to access it more fully as the story progressed. Here is one instance(of many):
http://i.imgur.com/HchV2J8.jpg
🙂
Indeed. Not only on that scan he was nearly as powerful as the Presence, he was capable of obliterating a Jokerized version of ZHP that was created by Hal himself unknowingly thanks to the powers of Spectre. I think unintentionally creating a Jokerized ZHP should be considered a legitimate feat and added to Spectre's respect thread.
Originally posted by abhilegend
[B]Yeah, and Spectre overpowered IG, CCU, UN alongwith several other artifacts when he separated DC and Marvel universes. Far better showing than LT's showing against IG in fact.]
No matter how many times you repeat this, it's still a false statement.
Also Thanos with a fraction of God's power owned LT like a feeb.]
Not the multiversal LT.
Also, let's use honest language. This is not running:
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111132213/4373250-9897548435-32254.jpg
Originally posted by cdtm
👆 He did indeed.And other versions getting one shotted, while Corrigan had an actual fight, lends proof to the theory a host affects Spectre's power level.
Perhaps i wasn't clear before, The spectre's power being dependent on its host is not a theory but a fact actually. It's been outright stated on panel.
And confirmed by the bio.
Also, like you've mentioned, a hostless Spectre was one-shotted by Michael, and in the form of Kali Michael stomped Cankara-Spectre. Apart from that the spectre has referred to Michael as an infinitely higher power.
Furthermore, Hal acquired the logoz when he became the spirit of redemption (as opposed to the spirit of vengeance which the previous Spectres represented). The logoz was always inside him in the form of wrath of God. Hal cast it out and then merged with it again, but turned it into a spirit of redemption. That's why Hal became less hateful and more merciful toward criminals. The logoz doesn't limits Hal's powers, it is merely his link to God. But Hal-Spectre's powers were still very limited throughout v4. This was confirmed in the Quoex story when the Spectre's power was stated to have a large amount of untapped power at his disposal, and that his power will continually expand.
Originally posted by operator616
Perhaps i wasn't clear before, The spectre's power being dependent on its host is not a theory but a fact actually. It's been outright stated on panel.And confirmed by the bio.
Also, like you've mentioned, a hostless Spectre was one-shotted by Michael, and in the form of Kali Michael stomped Cankara-Spectre. Apart from that the spectre has referred to Michael as an infinitely higher power.
Furthermore, Hal acquired the logoz when he became the spirit of redemption (as opposed to the spirit of vengeance which the previous Spectres represented). The logoz was always inside him in the form of wrath of God. Hal cast it out and then merged with it again, but turned it into a spirit of redemption. That's why Hal became less hateful and more merciful toward criminals. The logoz doesn't limits Hal's powers, it is merely his link to God. But Hal-Spectre's powers were still very limited throughout v4. This was confirmed in the Quoex story when the Spectre's power was stated to have a large amount of untapped power at his disposal, and that his power will continually expand.
👆 Do you see a peak Spectre more or less equal to LT?
Originally posted by operator616
Perhaps i wasn't clear before, The spectre's power being dependent on its host is not a theory but a fact actually. It's been outright stated on panel.And confirmed by the bio.
Also, like you've mentioned, a hostless Spectre was one-shotted by Michael, and in the form of Kali Michael stomped Cankara-Spectre. Apart from that the spectre has referred to Michael as an infinitely higher power.
Furthermore, Hal acquired the logoz when he became the spirit of redemption (as opposed to the spirit of vengeance which the previous Spectres represented). The logoz was always inside him in the form of wrath of God. Hal cast it out and then merged with it again, but turned it into a spirit of redemption. That's why Hal became less hateful and more merciful toward criminals. The logoz doesn't limits Hal's powers, it is merely his link to God. But Hal-Spectre's powers were still very limited throughout v4. This was confirmed in the Quoex story when the Spectre's power was stated to have a large amount of untapped power at his disposal, and that his power will continually expand.
Is the first scan from Ostrander's run? I know Xanadu stole the power, and turned out being completely wrong about her ability to control the Spectre Force, instead being forced into becoming a vengeance obsessed being.
Not that I think you're wrong, but I wouldn't call her an authority.
Likewise, bio's are usually considered "secondary canon" on most comic boards, vs what's stated in the printed page of a story (Probably because bio's often tend to downplay powers, like calling a character a ten tonner when they've ripped apart tanks..)
Of course, we do have a direct comparison of Hal and Corrigan facing down King of Tears, when one fairly easily dead with the lovecraftian horror, while the other failed miserably..
Originally posted by Zack M
👆 Do you see a peak Spectre more or less equal to LT?
Peak/High end Spectre would be on LT's level, yes.
Originally posted by cdtm
Is the first scan from Ostrander's run? I know Xanadu stole the power, and turned out being completely wrong about her ability to control the Spectre Force, instead being forced into becoming a vengeance obsessed being.Not that I think you're wrong, but I wouldn't call her an authority.
Likewise, bio's are usually considered "secondary canon" on most comic boards, vs what's stated in the printed page of a story (Probably because bio's often tend to downplay powers, like calling a character a ten tonner when they've ripped apart tanks..)
Of course, we do have a direct comparison of Hal and Corrigan facing down King of Tears, when one fairly easily dead with the lovecraftian horror, while the other failed miserably..
Yes, Ostrander's run, issue #7. Xanadu definitely wasn't wrong. First of all, she said that if the Spectre has no host it drifts away from being human (and we know this is true as seen in previous accounts where a hostless Spectre destroys Sodom and Gomorrah, and also the entire DoV is proof of this). Clearly she has a good idea of Spectre's nature. Xanadu wasn't "wrong" about controlling the Spectre, she just let her feelings get in the way. She couldn't be objective about judging people, that's all. That doesn't mean she doesn't know how the Spectre's powers work. Xanadu is regarded as being one of top of DC's mystics.
Bios can be used when they confirm what's been shown on panel, and that's exactly what i did. And even then, there are plenty of implications of such, you provided one. In Ostrander's run for instance, Spectre was able to easily defeat Nabu whom he could simply un-create, in DoV however he wasn't able to do so. I also recall the power fluctuation being implied in the Ramban arc.
