Scourge vs. AOTC Obi Wan Kenobi

Even Darth Nyriss doesn't believe she could defeat the Guards sent to her compound, stating she knew she was already dead.

The Imperial Guards defending the Sith Emperor were directly amplified by him and were stated to be the most elite of the lot.

Scourge couldn't even take Captain Yarri 1 vs 1, he spends almost the entire fight struggling to best her and she tags him twice rendering his right arm inoperable. Then Scourge amplifies himself off of the death of the single Guard that comes to aid Yarri and then Scourge wins.

Meanwhile Meetra was fighting five at once until one left to intervene in Scourge's fight, so she killed the remaining four single-handedly in the same amount of time it took Lord Scourge to kill his own. Furthermore Meetra hadn't been tagged once, because if she had one of her limbs would be numbed by the blow and that evidently wasn't the case once she charged to face the Emperor and save Revan.

See I don't have a problem with multiple Guards doing so, because there were a great many of them that were laying seige to Nyriss' stronghold, the defenders unprepared and not organized.

Problem I have however, is 1 Guard being able to kill a full Sith Lord, because this would be ignoring that Force Advantage the Sith Lord has over them, they aren't Jedi....they won't play nice and just stick with strict bladework. It doesn't really help that said Guards just ran head long into blaster fire and just died, now how stupid is that?

As the smoke cleared, dozens of red-uniformed soldiers poured through the breach, armed with blaster pistols and electrostaffs.

Nyriss’s people opened fire, mowing down the first wave. Those in the ranks behind never even slowed. Driven forward by their furious devotion to the Emperor, they charged the enemy line with a reckless disregard for their own safety.

This would be something I'd expect from like Sith Troopers, not Guardsmen.

Heck even against Scourge, Yarri knew she couldn't win and had to have a 2nd Guard come aid her and he was only struck because he was distracted with visions.

Captain Yarri’s skill with her electrostaff was impressive, but ultimately she was no match for a Sith Lord. Knowing this, she had wisely adopted a defensive style to hold off the first few flurries of Scourge’s attack, her focus on stalling him long enough for one of her companions to join the fray before switching to a more aggressive form.

Now Scourge was forced to defend himself on two fronts as he backed into the throne room.

The fact that Revan hadn’t come to their aid told Scourge that the Jedi had gone to confront the Emperor, conjuring up images from Scourge’s vision of him lying broken and beaten on the floor at the Emperor’s feet.

Yarri’s staff slipped through his defenses and clipped him on his right shoulder. Scourge’s armor absorbed the worst of the blow, though he felt a painful jolt from the electrostaff’s charge that made his hand and arm tingle.

Even as Scourge cursed himself for allowing thoughts of his vision to distract him

Originally posted by Nephthys
Lol @ Imperial Guards being fodder. They're stated to be so terrifying that "the most powerful of Sith Lords lay down their weapons and surrender to the certain death" at their hands.

Obviously exaggerated. Moreover, the novel itself contradicts this by saying that even the Captain was no match for a trained Sith Lord.

And by fodder, I mean no-name soldiers - which they are. Elite fodder, but fodder nonetheless.

In groups they are effective, the Protag struggles with three in SoR and one was half-mad.

Yarri by herself couldn't kill Scourge, but they aren't meant to fight by themselves. They're an elite anti-Force user group.

And Scourge didn't fight them in groups, really. He took on Yarri and one other, so the quote doesn't exactly apply anyway.

He faces Captain Yarri and one other who interrupts, Meetra faces five including the aforementioned one and kills the remaining four.

There were seven in total, the Emperor's personal attachment, and they are stated to be capable of amplifying themselves through the Emperor.

Darth Xedrix was no match for Lord Scourge either, might I add.

What Meetra faced doesn't make Scourge more impressive. Considering the environment was friendly to Scourge and hostile to Meetra.

IIRC Xedrix was so weak that he was disarmed as soon as they clashed blades. TPM Kenobi would chop him in half as well.

Well yeh, TPM Kenobi slaughters him in a duel, just saying Scourge would get the same treatment from Meetra, nevermind on neutral ground.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Scourge couldn't even take Captain Yarri 1 vs 1, he spends almost the entire fight struggling to best her and she tags him twice rendering his right arm inoperable. Then Scourge amplifies himself off of the death of the single Guard that comes to aid Yarri and then Scourge wins.

Meanwhile Meetra was fighting five at once until one left to intervene in Scourge's fight, so she killed the remaining four single-handedly in the same amount of time it took Lord Scourge to kill his own. Furthermore Meetra hadn't been tagged once, because if she had one of her limbs would be numbed by the blow and that evidently wasn't the case once she charged to face the Emperor and save Revan.

Captain Yarri's skill with her electrostaff was impressive, but ultimately she was no match for a Sith Lord. Knowing this, she had wisely adopted a defensive style to hold off the first few flurries of Scourge's attack, her focus on stalling him long enough for one of her companions to join the fray before switching to a more aggressive form.

Now Scourge was forced to defend himself on two fronts as he backed into the throne room. In his peripheral vision he saw that Meetra was in a
similar situation, retreating while battling a pair of enemies.

From Star Wars: The Old Republic: Revan

Both Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik contended with 2 Imperial Guards at a time. Lord Scourge, in particular, was up against more formidable opposition because the leader of Imperial Guards (i.e. Captain Yarri) was contending with him.

Your entire argument is flawed and disingenuous.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Revan Scourge? He sure is. He was a near-equal to Qui-Gon by this point, who is canonically one of the most skilled Jedi in history, who has outsparred Anoon Bondara (someone who is reputably the most skilled Jedi of the time) and who has contended with Maul, who is easily Scourge's superior. Scourge being better than Academy instructors, Xedrix's apprentices and some Imperial Guards, all of whom are practical fodder, doesn't put him out of Obi-Wan's league. [/B]

Imperial Guards are not fodder FYI.

Can you actually count?

She had come alone, bringing their escort up to seven.
-SWTOR Revan

Lord Scourge faces only Captain Yarri until they were exiting the hallway:

Slightly farther away, Scourge and Captain Yarri had already engaged in close-quarters combat.
-SWTOR Revan

Revan had already killed his own, leaving the other three to face Meetra Surik who is next to the door with two of her own already engaging her. One of them then goes to aid Yarri against Scourge.

Meetra killed four by herself.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
On what grounds you are asserting that Obi-Wan Kenobi was near-equal to Qui-Gon Jinn during Episode I?

Imperial Guards are not fodder FYI.

1. The fact that it's stated in the TPM novel? The novel also states that Obi-Wan's faster than Qui-Gon, who is at least as fast as Scourge as per showings.

2. They are. They're high-tier, accoladed, elite fodder, but fodder nonetheless.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
See I don't have a problem with multiple Guards doing so, because there were a great many of them that were laying seige to Nyriss' stronghold, the defenders unprepared and not organized.

Problem I have however, is 1 Guard being able to kill a full Sith Lord, because this would be ignoring that Force Advantage the Sith Lord has over them, they aren't Jedi....they won't play nice and just stick with strict bladework. It doesn't really help that said Guards just ran head long into blaster fire and just died, now how stupid is that?

This would be something I'd expect from like Sith Troopers, not Guardsmen.

Heck even against Scourge, Yarri knew she couldn't win and had to have a 2nd Guard come aid her and he was only struck because he was distracted with visions.

Theres a Guardsman in TOR was was stated in his codex entry to have killed over a dozen Sith.

Originally posted by AncientPower
Can you actually count?

Originally posted by AncientPower
Lord Scourge faces only Captain Yarri until they were exiting the hallway:

Revan had already killed his own, leaving the other three to face Meetra Surik who is next to the door with two of her own already engaging her. One of them then goes to aid Yarri against Scourge.

Meetra killed four by herself.

Revan and T3-M4 kill one initially.

Meetra Surik attacks two Imperial Guards but one of them breaks off to confront Revan - Revan kills him as well.

Two down. Four left.

Now, Lord Scourge and Meetra Surik face two each. Among them, Captain Yarri confronts Lord Scourge. The former to manage to kill both.

In the nutshell, Lord Scourge demonstrates superior skill then Meetra Surik.

Originally posted by SunRazer
1. The fact that it's stated in the TPM novel? The novel also states that Obi-Wan's faster than Qui-Gon, who is at least as fast as Scourge as per showings.

Originally posted by SunRazer
2. They are. They're high-tier, accoladed, elite fodder, but fodder nonetheless.

Revan kicks one whilst T3 shoots him, but doesn't kill him, the Guard just falls over. It even says that three others besides the two Surik initially engages at the door, are present:

An alarm began to ring out, triggered by one of the other three soldiers.
-SWTOR Revan

Then Revan blasts the doors open and slays the one intercepting him, he percieves another six Imperial Guards on the far side of the hallway and drops an arch on them.

Lord Scourge continues to face Captain Yarri until they move towards the throne room, so unless you're claiming that the other three Guards simply ceased to exist, they attacked Meetra before one split off to face Lord Scourge. Once they enter the throne room Meetra had evidently killed two others and then Scourge observes her slaying the last two as he finishes Yarri.

Originally posted by S_W_LeGenD
Then Qui-Gon isn't that impressive.

So because you have a preconceived notion of where Obi-Wan lies, then get proven wrong on it, you now put Qui-Gon lower just because Obi-Wan's near him? How about cutting your losses and putting them both higher? Because Qui-Gon's better than novel Scourge in every facet - feats, accolades, the whole nine yards. Obi-Wan being his near-equal means that it's not as outrageous as you're suggesting for him to be in Scourge's league, if not his equal.

It's things like this that make you get called out for being biased. As Temp would say, you're relying entirely on me being charitable towards your arguments but you're not willing to extend that same charity to me - or in this case, you're not willing to extend the same logic to TOR characters.

Just like Anoon Bondara.

Nah. If the Guards can't beat an average joe Sith Lord on their own, then any noted Jedi/Sith warrior's above them, let alone somebody with unquestionably superior accolades and showings like Anoon Bondara. Bondara performed against Maul about as well as the top Guard did against Scourge, and Maul's way better than Scourge. So Bondara kicks in an average Imperial Guard's shit.

They need to be in big numbers to be as effective as their hype suggests. On their own, or in paltry groups, they're not that impressive.

I just told you about a Guard who'd killed over a dozen Sith Lords. 😬

Sirak God tier confirmed.

Originally posted by Nephthys
Because the quote makes so much sense in the first place?

Regardless, the IG's are stated to be the ultimate non-force sensitive force in the Empire, above even the Mando's and "unmatched in martial skill." Their cred is solid.

This quote makes no sense, obviously utter dumb!

Lmao Neph.