Abstract Luthor vs. Abraxas · Comic Book 'Versus' Forum

Zack M Senior Member

Luthor should win.

Cogito Senior Member

Originally posted by zopzop
Why not? She's being affected by a guy who's causing problems on a universal scale. I thought she was a multiversal being? Low showing it is then.
And Abraxas wins.

Don't because characters using the word "universe" does not mean that for one f'ing issue they're demoted from multiversal to universal in scope.

Mr Master Junior Member

Abraxas is the most powerful Marvel Abstract.

Abraxas strolls by creation and entire universeS merge and eventually collapse.

The Multiversal embodiments of Eternity/Infinity were helpless against him.

This is why a power greater than that of Eternity/Infinity was needed, ergo, the Ultimate Nullifier. (classic UN that is)

Hickman's UN? I don't know.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Good thing is Luthor was above that too.

cdtm Restricted

Originally posted by Mr Master
Abraxas is the most powerful Marvel Abstract.
Abraxas strolls by creation and entire universeS merge and eventually collapse.
The Multiversal embodiments of Eternity/Infinity were helpless against him.
This is why a power greater than that of Eternity/Infinity was needed, ergo, the Ultimate Nullifier. (classic UN that is)
Hickman's UN? I don't know.

Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?

For that matter, is Abraxas?

Genii96 Senior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?
For that matter, is Abraxas?

Eh,the power of the UN depends on the mental ability of the user,
However eternity did state that in his totality,he was above the IG.
But as Mr master says, abraxas is at the top of the pack on a multiversal level

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

That's why destroying Eternity defeated him.

baka

Mindset Senior Member

Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?

Imprisoned him again.

zopzop Lord of the Great Abyss

Originally posted by abhilegend
That's why destroying Eternity defeated him.
baka

Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?
Imprisoned him again.

That's exactly what happened. It took resetting Creation to beat Abraxas.

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Originally posted by cdtm
Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?

The UN's feat of instantaneously destroying/recreating the multiverse is well beyond anything the IG has done, tbh. So from a feats-only perspective, the UN is > in terms of scope/scale. However, most believe the IG still has a greater depth of power within any given reality. That said, in an 'IG vs. UN' battle, the IG *should* win.

ghostman Senior Member

sorry dc fans, abraxas takes this 🙁

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Mindset
Wasn't it the resetting of the multiverse that defeated it?
Imprisoned him again.

It reset the reality and destroyed Abraxas.

And Abraxas had to use Ultimate nullifier himself to destroy the reality. He himself never had the power to do so.

👆

Genii96 Senior Member

Pathetic,abraxas wanted the UN because it was the one thing that could imprison him

Galan007 |Quantum Observer|

Yeah, Abraxas never intended to use the UN. He acquired it solely so that it could be removed from play. He didn't want anyone using it against him(which, of course, is what Reed ultimately did when he destroyed/recreated the multiverse, lulz):

Reed: "You NEVER intended to fire the Nullifier for the very same reason I MUST!" [...] "In order to REALIGN ALL THAT IS -- we needed to END ALL THAT WAS."

Mindset Senior Member

Originally posted by abhilegend
It reset the reality and destroyed Abraxas.
And Abraxas had to use Ultimate nullifier himself to destroy the reality. He himself never had the power to do so.
👆

Have you read the story?

His presence was causing realities to collapse.

Mr Master Junior Member

... and yet, the posting with confidence. 😂

Originally posted by cdtm
Would you say the UN is > the Infinity Gauntlet?
For that matter, is Abraxas?

The "new" (retconned) IG is meh, I don't know. There's been signs of ups, and then downs.

Starlin's IG is leagues above the power of the UN.

Starlin's IG made one "God" beneath the power of TOAA (or representative of such).

There was (imo, in Starlin's eyes, still is) nothing above that.
(save for THOTI which is connected to TOAA's power,
so imo, shouldn't really count, ... that, and it doesn't exist anymore)

cdtm Restricted

God beneath.... TOAA....

So Starlin IG > Living Tribunal. O_o

I have to ask, where does Pre Retcon Beyonder fit into this. Above everything except TOAA?

Mr Master Junior Member

Originally posted by cdtm
God beneath.... TOAA....
So Starlin IG > Living Tribunal.

When the LT confronted Starlin's IG, Starlin had the LT as a representative of TOAA's power.

Interesting question though, I still don't know for sure.
Starlin has recently changed the concept of the LT, and also Marvel's cosmology.
The characters are the same, but now every universe (of significance) is a copy of 616. (concerning the abstracts that is)
The cosmic hierarchy (specially Eternity/Infinity and LT) are the most powerful entities in any given universe,
and if you're = or above them, you're considered a "God."

Hickman, on the other hand, has a slightly different interpretation.
The LT is the final stage, the embodiment of the Multiverse,
while Eternity/Infinity are the universal embodiments of every individual universe.
Don't ask me how the LT ends up being the sum of them. That's some Hickman bullshit.

Both Hickman and Starlin regard the BeyonderS as above their hierarchies.

Originally posted by cdtm
I have to ask, where does Pre Retcon Beyonder fit into this. Above everything except TOAA?

He doesn't, cause he's retconned. But if he did exist today, as what he was supposed to be then,
he'd still be the most powerful cat ever.

Today, he would be the embodiment/entirety of the Beyond Realm.

The Beyond Realm is so vast, (even after Beyonder's retcon)
that the rest of Marvel "dwindles into insignificance" next to it.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Galan007
Yeah, Abraxas never intended to use the UN. He acquired it solely so that it could be removed from play. He didn't want anyone using it against him(which, of course, is what Reed ultimately did when he destroyed/recreated the multiverse, lulz):

Reed: "You NEVER intended to fire the Nullifier for the very same reason I MUST!" [...] "In order to REALIGN ALL THAT IS -- we needed to END ALL THAT WAS."

It wasn't like Abraxas had the power himself to destroy even Galactus of 616 reality. When confronted with Galactus, he tried to use the nullifier himself only to be punked by Galactus.

He has nothing but statements of power.

Originally posted by Mindset
Have you read the story?
His presence was causing realities to collapse.

Yes, he was chaos and his presence weakened the boundaries of the realities.

That's gonna help him in the fight when Luthor can simply negate all the chaos and entropy around him.

abhilegend Prince of All Saiyans

Originally posted by Mr Master
... and yet, the posting with confidence. 😂
The "new" (retconned) IG is meh, I don't know. There's been signs of ups, and then downs.
Starlin's IG is leagues above the power of the UN.
Starlin's IG made one "God" beneath the power of TOAA (or representative of such).
There was (imo, in Starlin's eyes, still is) nothing above that.
(save for THOTI which is connected to TOAA's power,
so imo, shouldn't really count, ... that, and it doesn't exist anymore)

Originally posted by Mr Master
When the LT confronted Starlin's IG, Starlin had the LT as a representative of TOAA's power.
Interesting question though, I still don't know for sure.
Starlin has recently changed the concept of the LT, and also Marvel's cosmology.
The characters are the same, but now every universe (of significance) is a copy of 616. (concerning the abstracts that is)
The cosmic hierarchy (specially Eternity/Infinity and LT) are the most powerful entities in any given universe,
and if you're = or above them, you're considered a "God."
Hickman, on the other hand, has a slightly different interpretation.
The LT is the final stage, the embodiment of the Multiverse,
while Eternity/Infinity are the universal embodiments of every individual universe.
Don't ask me how the LT ends up being the sum of them. That's some Hickman bullshit.
Both Hickman and Starlin regard the BeyonderS as above their hierarchies.
He doesn't, cause he's retconned. But if he did exist today, as what he was supposed to be then,
he'd still be the most powerful cat ever.
Today, he would be the embodiment/entirety of the Beyond Realm.
The Beyond Realm is so vast, (even after Beyonder's retcon)
that the rest of Marvel "dwindles into insignificance" next to it.

😂

Mindless wanking is always fun. Starlin's IG made the wearer supreme in one reality only too. Stated several times.

http://static.comicvine.com/api/image/2586483-warlockinfinitywatch10_10.jpg

Let me know I need to educate you more.