SW should win. TK crush/rip should be enough. The force she can exert (based on the airport scene) is in the hundred-ton range at least at many times the max range of what a future Sentinel has shown to be able to do. Can't remember any sentinel "feats" around this area (but feel free to correct me as I might be forgetting something.
I think another line of logic is the fact that SW's attacks also function as a form of defense.
Range will be an issue in this fight. SW has shown much further attack range distance than the Future Sentinels AFAIK (feel free to correct me, can't really remember the DoFP fights that much today).
The attacks are physical "force" attack in nature and may function just as much as a push/stop as much as it is a crush/rip.
Meaning hitting a Future Sent will also keep it at a distance, or at least hinder its ability to close distance. Meaning that for as long as SW keeps attacking it at max range, it won't be able to close the distance needed to start an attack.
Originally posted by Nibedicus👆
I think another line of logic is the fact that SW's attacks also function as a form of defense.Range will be an issue in this fight. SW has shown much further attack range distance than the Future Sentinels AFAIK (feel free to correct me, can't really remember the DoFP fights that much today).
The attacks are physical "force" attack in nature and may function just as much as a push/stop as much as it is a crush/rip.
Meaning hitting a Future Sent will also keep it at a distance, or at least hinder its ability to close distance. Meaning that for as long as SW keeps attacking it at max range, it won't be able to close the distance needed to start an attack.
LoM is backing down like he always does dot dot dot
Originally posted by Nibedicus
SW should win. TK crush/rip should be enough. The force she can exert (based on the airport scene) is in the hundred-ton range at least at many times the max range of what a future Sentinel has shown to be able to do. Can't remember any sentinel "feats" around this area (but feel free to correct me as I might be forgetting something.
I think the Future Sentinel can protect itself from being crushed by Diamond Form (Diamond can withstand 6 million atmospheres of pressure)...
It could then retaliate and kill Wanda; she only has normal human durability afterall...
If the Sentinel lands 1 single attack, she dies...
Originally posted by Nibedicus
I think another line of logic is the fact that SW's attacks also function as a form of defense.Range will be an issue in this fight. SW has shown much further attack range distance than the Future Sentinels AFAIK (feel free to correct me, can't really remember the DoFP fights that much today).
The attacks are physical "force" attack in nature and may function just as much as a push/stop as much as it is a crush/rip.
Meaning hitting a Future Sent will also keep it at a distance, or at least hinder its ability to close distance. Meaning that for as long as SW keeps attacking it at max range, it won't be able to close the distance needed to start an attack.
Between its defensive ability, self repair, and ability to amp its strength if needed, I think the Sentinel has everything it needs to power through Wanda's initial assault and kill her...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
I think the Future Sentinel can protect itself from being crushed by Diamond Form (Diamond can withstand 6 million atmospheres of pressure)...It could then retaliate and kill Wanda; she only has normal human durability afterall...
If the Sentinel lands 1 single attack, she dies...
What "feats" do the "diamond-skin" sentinels have that make you think that it has the exact qualities of actual diamonds? For all we know it's just a cheap synthetic copy or pale imitation of what diamonds are.
I mean Magneto was slowly breaking Emma's (w/c I assume is the basis of the Sentinel's diamond form) diamond form with a freakin bed post.
That's just the thing, in order for it to get a single attack off, it has to get in range. Wanda will hit it, it gets tossed back or thrown and it won't ever be able to bring its weapons to bear.
I mean I can easily understand the future Sentinels overwhelming her via numbers. But 1v1, no way.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
Between its defensive ability, self repair, and ability to amp its strength if needed, I think the Sentinel has everything it needs to power through Wanda's initial assault and kill her...
What "feats" are you basing this on, man? I mean Wanda's force powers is in the 100-ton range. When have they ever managed to show this kind of strength?
Also, this is the movie forum. We don't really put any stock in the comicbooks showings here. Heck, Wanda has a completely different powerset in Avengers as she does in the comicbooks, do I don't really know your point in all that.
Originally posted by TheLordofMurderMovies only you rabid fanboy. You believe 1000 of these is a good matchup against ultrons weaker clones so you don't have a high opinion of them. Clearly.
I think its initeresting to add that in the original DoFP story, the Future Sentinels killed Wanda specifically (along with Hulk, Vision, Iron Man, Captain America, and Doctor Doom...as well as others):
Originally posted by Nibedicus
What "feats" do the "diamond-skin" sentinels have that make you think that it has the exact qualities of actual diamonds? For all we know it's just a cheap synthetic copy or pale imitation of what diamonds are.I mean Magneto was slowly breaking Emma's (w/c I assume is the basis of the Sentinel's diamond form) diamond form with a freakin bed post.
That's just the thing, in order for it to get a single attack off, it has to get in range. Wanda will hit it, it gets tossed back or thrown and it won't ever be able to bring its weapons to bear.
I mean I can easily understand the future Sentinels overwhelming her via numbers. But 1v1, no way.
What "feats" are you basing this on, man? I mean Wanda's force powers is in the 100-ton range. When have they ever managed to show this kind of strength?
Also, this is the movie forum. We don't really put any stock in the comicbooks showings here. Heck, Wanda has a completely different powerset in Avengers as she does in the comicbooks, do I don't really know your point in all that.
There is evidence to support that when a Sentinel uses a mutant power, its superior to the mutant version of it...
Watch the following clip; the Sentinel and Colossus appear to have comparable strength (with an edge to the Sentinel), but when the Sentinel copies Colossus's Metal Form, it became far stronger than Colossus and crushed him rapidly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yklgt6t4fL4
In the following clip, a Sentinel uses Diamond Form to make itself invulnerable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGIQech3_s
Edit: links fixed...
@Nibedicus...
So in conclusion, I firmly believe a solid case can be made for the Sentinel powering through her asasult and killing her based on all the powers and abilities it has...
And I'll challenge you the same way I challenged Time-Immemorial...
Post a clip of her simutaneously attacking an opponent and defending herself; I cant recall an instance of this at all...
And if that is really the case that she's never been seen to do both at the same time, her attacking the Sentinel will leave her vulnerable to the Sentinels ranged attack, and that attack will end her very quickly...
Originally posted by quanchi112
Movies only you rabid fanboy. You believe 1000 of these is a good matchup against ultrons weaker clones so you don't have a high opinion of them. Clearly.
It bothers you that your precious Avengers got slaughtered by the Future Sentinels in the comicbook...doesnt it? 😂
Too bad Bucky wasnt there...
The Sentinels would have had his corpse in a mass grave...
Blood flowing out of his mouth...
Maggots crawling around in his eye sockets, chewing on his eyeballs...
With a sign saying "help me Quanchi!" hanging around his neck...
😂
So once again, to get back on topic, who wins this Quanchi?
10000 Future Sentinels or 10000 Ultron Clones?
🙂
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder1) There is evidence to support that when a Sentinel uses a mutant power, its superior to the mutant version of it...
Watch the following clip; the Sentinel and Colossus appear to have comparable strength (with an edge to the Sentinel), but when the Sentinel copies Colossus's Metal Form, it became far stronger than Colossus and crushed him rapidly:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yklgt6t4fL4
In the following clip, a Sentinel uses Diamond Form to make itself invulnerable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fbGIQech3_s
Edit: links fixed...
@Nibedicus...
2) So in conclusion, I firmly believe a solid case can be made for the Sentinel powering through her asasult and killing her based on all the powers and abilities it has...
And I'll challenge you the same way I challenged Time-Immemorial...
3) Post a clip of her simutaneously attacking an opponent and defending herself; I cant recall an instance of this at all...
And if that is really the case that she's never been seen to do both at the same time, her attacking the Sentinel will leave her vulnerable to the Sentinels ranged attack, and that attack will end her very quickly...
1) That actually proves the opposite. The Sentinel ALREADY had comparable strength to Colossus. The Sentinel adding in Colossus' power to its own superhuman strength made it stronger than him. That much should be obvious.
It doesn't create a stronger copy of the power, it just adds the power (w/c may even be a pale copy) to its own abilities (w/c includes its already far-superior-to-human-strength). It doesn't suddenly lose its base stats just because it activated a power, after all.
Ergo, its base strength = Colossus strength. It's base strength + Colossus' powers > Colossus. Essentially.
And assuming that its diamond form is somehow superior to Emma's durability is a no-limits fallacy. You need to provide proof that it is better, else we assume it is equal layered on top of its base sentinel armor.
2) A bit of a leap of logic there. Wanda has demonstrated upwards of 100-ton force with her powers, has shown to use it at max range of at least 100-200 feet (if I remember the air traffic control-building lifting "feat"😉. At no time has any Sentinel shown this much strength and at no time has it shown the durability to withstand 100-ton force.
3) Strawman. Never made the claim of her having shields and attacking at the same time (although IIRC, she did do it during the start of CW as well as during the airport scene, I could be mistaken, tho). You must have misunderstood my point entirely. Please reread my post again.
And your "challenge" is rigged, you obviously know that no one can post clips of the CW fights yet (without breaking the law) as they're still in the cinemas and not yet in blu ray/itunes/youtube/etc.
Edit. PS. Question: What is the max range a Sentinel has shown with its range attack? Don't really recall DoFP that well but I can't for the life of me remember an attack outside 20-30 feet that a Sentinel ever did.
I actually managed to find a youtube vid of the airport fight. Here is SW using her powers on the air traffic control tower.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=um3vs1dLH_c
Easily 100 tons (you can get a better look the size of the structure relative to Cap/Falcon at 2:51), easily much more than 100+ "feat"(you can get a view of the distance at 2:46).
We know that is the max range SW can use her power and the amount of max force that she can exert.
Any proof of a future Sent's ranged attack at that distance? Or any proof of a future Sent resisting/powering thru that much power?
Originally posted by Nibedicus
1) That actually proves the opposite. The Sentinel ALREADY had comparable strength to Colossus. The Sentinel adding in Colossus' power to its own superhuman strength made it stronger than him. That much should be obvious.It doesn't create a stronger copy of the power, it just adds the power (w/c may even be a pale copy) to its own abilities (w/c includes its already far-superior-to-human-strength). It doesn't suddenly lose its base stats just because it activated a power, after all.
Ergo, its base strength = Colossus strength. It's base strength + Colossus' powers > Colossus. Essentially.
And assuming that its diamond form is somehow superior to Emma's durability is a no-limits fallacy. You need to provide proof that it is better, else we assume it is equal layered on top of its base sentinel armor.
2) A bit of a leap of logic there. Wanda has demonstrated upwards of 100-ton force with her powers, has shown to use it at max range of at least 100-200 feet (if I remember the air traffic control-building lifting "feat"😉. At no time has any Sentinel shown this much strength and at no time has it shown the durability to withstand 100-ton force.
3) Strawman. Never made the claim of her having shields and attacking at the same time (although IIRC, she did do it during the start of CW as well as during the airport scene, I could be mistaken, tho). You must have misunderstood my point entirely. Please reread my post again.
And your "challenge" is rigged, you obviously know that no one can post clips of the CW fights yet (without breaking the law) as they're still in the cinemas and not yet in blu ray/itunes/youtube/etc.
Edit. PS. Question: What is the max range a Sentinel has shown with its range attack? Don't really recall DoFP that well but I can't for the life of me remember an attack outside 20-30 feet that a Sentinel ever did.
1st off, I want to thank you for a coherent, well thought out, argument; its refreshing to have one of these that doesnt involve flaming...well done. 👆
Your viewpoint on what the Sentinels are doing when they utilize mutant powers is interesting and is something that I hadnt considered; the Sentinels simply adding the mutants base stats/durability/ect to its own makes sense and I cant find fault with that line of thought... 👆
As pertains the amount of force Wanda has demonstrated, I cant argue with that, but I can argue (although not conclusively) that the Sentinel demonstrated comparable force when it smashed Colossus's head in after copying his Metal Form...
And I'm fully aware that you never made the claim that Wanda could attack and defend at the same time; Time-Immemorial did, and I issued you the same challenge based on my belief that she cant do both at the same time (as I havent seen her do this ever in the movie...not that I can recall at any rate).
My thoughts are that if she's attacking the Sentinel, then she's not defending herself and would be vulnerable to counter attack during this time; if you can find evidence otherwise then I'll eat my words...
Also it being illegal to post scenes never crossed my mind during this debate, so I can assure you that I'm not trying to get anyone to do anything wrong by breaking the law; posted scenes from Civil War can definitely wait...
As pertains the max range of the Sentinels ranged attack, that is unknown...
The Sentinels always fought them when in the mutants direct presence, so yeah, we've never seen the Sentinels ranged attack travel more than the 20 or 30 feet that you stated...
Originally posted by TheLordofMurder
1st off, I want to thank you for a coherent, well thought out, argument; its refreshing to have one of these that doesnt involve flaming...well done. 👆Your viewpoint on what the Sentinels are doing when they utilize mutant powers is interesting and is something that I hadnt considered; the Sentinels simply adding the mutants base stats/durability/ect to its own makes sense and I cant find fault with that line of thought... 👆
As pertains the amount of force Wanda has demonstrated, I cant argue with that, but I can argue (although not conclusively) that the Sentinel demonstrated comparable force when it smashed Colossus's head in after copying his Metal Form...
And I'm fully aware that you never made the claim that Wanda could attack and defend at the same time; Time-Immemorial did, and I issued you the same challenge based on my belief that she cant do both at the same time (as I havent seen her do this ever in the movie...not that I can recall at any rate).
My thoughts are that if she's attacking the Sentinel, then she's not defending herself and would be vulnerable to counter attack during this time; if you can find evidence otherwise then I'll eat my words...
Also it being illegal to post scenes never crossed my mind during this debate, so I can assure you that I'm not trying to get anyone to do anything wrong by breaking the law; posted scenes from Civil War can definitely wait...
As pertains the max range of the Sentinels ranged attack, that is unknown...
The Sentinels always fought them when in the mutants direct presence, so yeah, we've never seen the Sentinels ranged attack travel more than the 20 or 30 feet that you stated...
Thanks, man! Feeling is mutual, the best debates are friendly discussions and should be fun for all involved. So I appreciate the friendly and coherent argument from you as well. 👆
🙂
Can't really speak for the amount of force needed to collapse Colossus' skull, though. We have no indicator what kind of durability his head has as his showings during the series have been very limited. I mean, if we were talking about the Deadpool version of Colossus, I might be inclined to agree that the force needed may well be closer to 100 tons. But I don't know how canon to each other these characters are and they look/behave/sound completely different from each other so, there's that.
The closest indicator we might have to Colossus' durability would be how collapsing his head affected the concrete underneath. It cracked the surface. Something Winter Soldier was able to accomplish.
I, myself, cannot speak for the amount of force that was as I am not an engineer. Nor can I speak on how to convert that to force/weight as I am not a physicist and, as it is, am too lazy right now (and feel that the argument can be debunked without the need to quantify it) to do my research. 😛
I can, however, speak for how it MIGHT apply to this fight. And that would be, not all that much. Even assuming the Sentinel can generate the punch force needed to get thru Wanda's shields, my entire argument is based on the fact that it's not even necessary for Wanda to block it with a shield or to even prevent it from moving.
This fight actually comes down to effective range and the nature of Wanda's attack. It is a physical-force type attack that has many times the demonstrated effective range of the Sentinel. A Physical attack that works as a push as much as it is a tear/rip/break.
Each hit from Wanda's attack will toss the Sentinel back, an example would be how she did it to War Machine and to Panther. Each of her attacks threw them back a far distance (and this was her holding back). She doesn't have to overpower the Sentinel's strength, she just has to apply force greater than it's mass (plus whatever force its thrusters apply). And that is all she really needs to keep the Sentinel in check. For as long as it is forced back, it cannot bring it's weapons (w/c have a short demonstrated range) to bear. And all Wanda has to do is keep attacking it til it breaks, which I'm sure (even you would agree) she can do eventually (before tiring).