Brexit, should Britain leave the EU?

Originally posted by It's xyz!
I think that's what everyone was concerned with. I'm a 3rd gen pollack and I see Romanians and Poles and they're ****ing everywhere! Granted, some of them work, but they struggle to find work. They also have a much higher standard of living and switch to drugs and alcohol. Social housing and sending money to their own countries etc. It's bad for them as well as the non immigrant population. Movement of labour was disastrous and Farage was right.

However, to be precise.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2017817/Poles-sending-home-3bn-year--pay-4-5m-week-benefits.html

The study also revealed that of the 390,000 Poles thought to be living in the UK around one in five – some 70,000 – are thought to be unemployed.

So about 20% are unemployed. However, that is still a very large number. The fact is, even if it was 10%, Britons are justified in asking themselves why should they provide social benefits for them.

TBH Farage was right indeed, those who are not workiing are usually in Britain because they know that:

Part of Britain’s attraction for Poles is better childcare facilities and more generous state aid than back home, the authors say.

Which is the core of the issue. If you are going to give social benefits to everyone without thinking through what and how you are doing things (as the EU pushes), large grups of people will be taking advantage of it.

Originally posted by It's xyz!
Bardock is a sore loser and his trophy child gf is moving to Japan. She got raped by too many good workers who contribute to German economy.

BTW xyz, you speak some Polish?

I know Kurwa Niemcy and czesc

Whore, Germany and hello

Originally posted by Stigma
BTW xyz, you speak some Polish?

I am legitimately curious as to how those saying the EU insists on open borders feel about the whole Switzerland thing.

Was just quickly dropping by, saw Surtur's question.

Not quite sure what you mean there. Switzerland had to accept free movement as a prerequisite for its trade deals, as a result of which it has immigration at a rate 4 times higher than the UK, which annoyed enough of the population for a narrow referendum vote to pass to restrict free movement again- which if enacted would immediately kill all the vital trade deals (that's not an idle threat- it's a guillotine clause actually written into the deals that if any part of their agreement with the EU goes, it all goes).

So then their immigration laws aren't actually tighter than the UK's?

I also still don't get why they bother having people vote on referendums if politicians can merely choose to just not enact them if they don't like the outcome of the vote.

Well I don't know their laws in detail but I know a. their immigration rate is much higher, b. they've had to accept EU free movement and c. this has proved as contentious as it has in the UK.

Switzerland also has to pay into the EU budget, but doesn't have the power to affect anything the EU does.

Of course, most of the Leave politicians in the UK aren't actually that much against free movement, and any deal the UK makes will almost certainly compromise on it. That whole part of the campaign was mostly illusory.

Originally posted by Surtur
I also still don't get why they bother having people vote on referendums if politicians can merely choose to just not enact them if they don't like the outcome of the vote.

Why indeed?

The AV vote in the UK a few years back was actually legally required to be enacted- but the EU vote was not, it was specified as merely advisory.

Switzerland is a very referendum happy country.

But basically, referendums are a pretty crap way to run anything in a country.

In the long-term, the actual difference this is going to make is tiny. Any deal we end up with outside the EU is likely to be almost identical to something we would have negotiated within it. This is all just posturing about sovereignty that is practically meaningless.

Norway also has to suffer a deal similar to Switzerlands.

We are outside the EU but still have to accept far more immigrants than the UK.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
Well I don't know their laws in detail but I know a. their immigration rate is much higher, b. they've had to accept EU free movement and c. this has proved as contentious as it has in the UK.

Out of curiosity let us say they had a referendum for something(it could be anything) and somehow 100% of the people who turned out to vote decided to vote in favor of this referendum. Since I know these things aren't legally binding...I assume that literally every single person could vote for a certain plan and politicians could still choose to ignore it anyways?

Likewise if they decide not to enact the Brexit is there anything the people could do in order to make sure it does get enacted? Any further steps they could take?

Switzerland also has to pay into the EU budget, but doesn't have the power to affect anything the EU does.

That seems kind of unfair.

Of course, most of the Leave politicians in the UK aren't actually that much against free movement, and any deal the UK makes will almost certainly compromise on it. That whole part of the campaign was mostly illusory.

So if the Leave politicians were just using the immigration issue as an illusionary campaign then what is the true reason they want to leave?

They didn't. Most of the Tory leave politicians expected to lose but wanted to gain popularity by appearing populist. They are now stuck with it. Nigel Farage and UKIP genuinely wanted out but they are a fringe. You will note the Tory leave stance since the vote has been a. there's no hurry to leave, b. we want to work with Europe and c. we'll accept free movement of labour. That's literally on tv interview- you can go find it if you want.

And yes, politicians could ignore a 100% referendum vote if it was not binding- but then they'd all be voted out at the next election. Elections are the cornerstone of democracy.

As for unfair- well, that's the price of being out but wanting part of the pie. The UK now has to deal with that issue.

Originally posted by Ushgarak
They didn't. Most of the Tory leave politicians expected to lose but wanted to gain popularity by appearing populist. They are now stuck with it. Nigel Farage and UKIP genuinely wanted out but they are a fringe.

So for the people who genuinely wanted out what were their main reasons?

In the long-term, the actual difference this is going to make is tiny. Any deal we end up with outside the EU is likely to be almost identical to something we would have negotiated within it. This is all just posturing about sovereignty that is practically meaningless.

A lot of people who wanted to remain have essentially been saying the Brexit will be catastrophic in nature. Essentially that your country will be ruined and in chaos within the next decade or two. Okay nobody came out and flat out said that last part, but it's how I have seen some react.

Would you say the people of that mindset are overreacting?

Well some of those who genuinely wanted out do genuinely want immigration cut back, virtually to 0, but that's effectively dreamland. Its not any sort of possibility. For others it was more about the illusion of control.

As we can see from the short-term disruption, Brexit creates a number of serious challenges. My feeling, though, is that in the long-term things will work out, and that looking back on it it will just seem like some giant stressful waste of time rather than a total disaster. Still, we'll see- actually the political fallout is probably a bigger deal right now, with both UK main parties in total crisis.

And with that, back to real life for me.

So in the long term your way of life probably won't be that drastically altered?

I like all the little commies that get all butt bent over how they think the UK can't exist with out being part of the EU.

Makes Me value my Benny Hill vids even more.

Good and interesting points, Ush. 👆

No! The country is falling apart because of muh racists! We must move to Ireland where there are no racists!

Originally posted by Surtur
So in the long term your way of life probably won't be that drastically altered?

Entitlement.

Also shouldn't xyz be permabanned for socking if that's him above me? Not that I'd wish that on such a charming individual.....

Almost as entitled as the EU expecting a country to pay into the EU budget while at the same time having zero say in anything.

Also shouldn't xyz be permabanned for socking if that's him above me? Not that I'd wish that on such a charming individual..... [/B]

Given the way certain other posters have behaved without ever getting permabanned..no he probably shouldn't be permabanned.

Originally posted by Surtur
Almost as entitled as the EU expecting a country to pay into the EU budget while at the same time having zero say in anything..

Well the big difference here is that what Nephthys linked is delusional whilst the 'paying in' thing is hard political reality.