Originally posted by cs_zoltan
It's been countered so many times it's not even funny anymore. But I wouldn't expect you to stop saying that, you gotta take every stab at the PT/OT era you can 👆
Everyone thinks they've countered an argument, their opposition thinks otherwise, no one ever changes their minds and the circle continues.
The problem with your "argument" Neph is that you can't prove it necessary, the alternative is an equally possible and workable solution.
Difference being that the opposing argument is supported by the fact TFU is licensed canon material, whereas your proposition flies in the face of the norm regarding SW continuity.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So you are the only one who didn't note how Khem is fanatically obsessed with his master (which makes him a biased source of information), aggrandising his status by claiming Nox is nothing in comparison, before conceding that actually Nox is a worthy successor?That seems good enough basis for me, as is the general trope for past acts of heroics are often widely exaggerated by their retellers.
Certainly you can't proof beyond a doubt that Khem's statements are entirely valid.
And the Galen Marek argument has been gone over a thousand times, pretty much everyone other than yourself and Ant agrees that TFU made an "overblown" "over the top" game (note the word game, this is never even applied to the novel) by making an extremely powerful protagonist, as Blackman himself has stated, a being who had the potential to become the most powerful Force user ever, not but exaggerating his powers, which would work to deliberately make canon continuity unreliable, a rather absurd notion tbh.
I would counter that Khem is compelled to be loyal to Nox and never disobeys her or lies to her, ever, in the entire game. As I stated, Khem has no reason to lie, theres no reason the writers would write him as telling you incorrect stories and then never actually give you the indication that this is the case and without anything actually indicating it it's an entirely pointless
Why should I care about your opinion when you're clearly biased, lol. Thats how this works right? I call you biased so I get to dismiss everything you say?
Luckily this is an internet debate and not rocket science so I don't have to prove something beyond a doubt. As we've seen, hardly anything on this forum can be proven beyond a doubt. I've made the case and you haven't established anywhere near the doubt necessary to dismiss Khems statements.
Hardly absurd, it's been the case for 15 years now:
"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.' "
Oh really? Can I assume the case is the same for you when I kicked your ass in that Nox thread and you never got around to replying? 🙂
I'm a busy guy. I have a ton of interests and nowhere near enough time to indulge in them all. Also, only idiots think they win just because the person stops replying. If thats the case Legend and Quan dominate everyone on the forum, lol.
Originally posted by Nephthys
Oh really? Can I assume the case is the same for you when I kicked your ass in that Nox thread and you never got around to replying? 🙂I'm a busy guy. I have a ton of interests and nowhere near enough time to indulge in them all. Also, only idiots think they win just because the person stops replying. If thats the case Legend and Quan dominate everyone on the forum, lol.
Actually, LeGenD showed up in the thread and I made a personal decision a long time ago to not bother with him anymore. Make a CaV for it, I'm 100% down to slaughter you in front of every member of both forums, but I'm not dealing with LeGenD's cancer at the same time.
You were happy to reply to every other thread. The difference with LeGenD and Quan is that everyone runs in circles with them. With you, you presented an argument, I followed up with my own and you abandoned the thread only to continue spouting the same drivel with absolutely zero justification. At least LeGenD and Quan try to justify their arguments to anyone who opposes them instead of running like a child 🙂
Originally posted by Selenial
Actually, LeGenD showed up in the thread and I made a personal decision a long time ago to not bother with him anymore. Make a CaV for it, I'm 100% down to slaughter you in front of every member of both forums, but I'm not dealing with LeGenD's cancer at the same time.You were happy to reply to every other thread. The difference with LeGenD and Quan is that everyone runs in circles with them. With you, you presented an argument, I followed up with my own and you abandoned the thread only to continue spouting the same drivel with absolutely zero justification. At least LeGenD and Quan try to justify their arguments to anyone who opposes them instead of running like a child 🙂
BS, I have the thread right in front of me and you state a willingness to reply even after Legend started posting. And no ones gonna force you to talk to him, this isn't ****ing kindergarten. 😬
I can't even remember what thread you're talking about. That you crow victory whenever something slips my mind or attention is p sad. Honestly I might have just considered you not worth the effort. Especially on such well-worn ground when you clearly have nothing new to offer. Obviously I haven't conceded because I still hold to my belief and continue to argue it.
Or maybe carthage posted and I thought "ew noooo! I can't possibly just not talk to him, clearly I need to abandon the thread! Totes not conceding tho!" 😆
Also I'm not on CV.
Originally posted by NephthysAgain there is a difference between lies and hyperbole, embellishing on and/or generalising the truth doesn't make Khem a flat out liar, especially considering this stuff happened thousands of years ago, so we can't exactly expect perfect memory recall. For example I could and others have claimed that Galen Marek pulled down a Star Destroyer (and an observer might even have seen it that way) but it truth it was already falling and he merely altered its flight path.
I would counter that Khem is compelled to be loyal to Nox and never disobeys her or lies to her, ever, in the entire game. As I stated, Khem has no reason to lie, theres no reason the writers would write him as telling you incorrect stories and then never actually give you the indication that this is the case and without anything actually indicating it it's an entirely pointlessWhy should I care about your opinion when you're clearly biased, lol. Thats how this works right? I call you biased so I get to dismiss everything you say?
Luckily this is an internet debate and not rocket science so I don't have to prove something beyond a doubt. As we've seen, hardly anything on this forum can be proven beyond a doubt. I've made the case and you haven't established anywhere near the doubt necessary to dismiss Khems statements.
Nor do we know the circumstances surrounding Hord's accomplishments, for example did Khem omit to mention the ship was damaged, its engines perhaps? How far was it off the ground? We don't know.
Yes, Khem's enamored perspective on Hord is absolutely reason to see his accomplishments through rose-tinted spectacles, skewing them in the best possible way. In fact I see people earnestly do so on these forums all the time. To which I'd add are often ignored because yes, there opinions are biased.
But sure, the option to take his claims literally is open to you, but what you claimed is that there is absolutely no reason to doubt him. And that's just not true.
Hardly absurd, it's been the case for 15 years now:Lol quote the full source material, that's referring to movie continuity vs. its EU depictions. Which correspond to established rules in canon. The TFU novel is an entirely inclusive source, and has no higher source it can contradict. None of these rules apply. 😬"The analogy is that every piece of published Star Wars fiction is a window into the 'real' Star Wars universe. Some windows are a bit foggier than others. Some are decidedly abstract. But each contains a nugget of truth to them. Like the great Jedi Master Obi-Wan Kenobi said, 'many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view.' "
Originally posted by Nephthys
BS, I have the thread right in front of me and you state a willingness to reply even after Legend started posting. And no ones gonna force you to talk to him, this isn't ****ing kindergarten. 😬I can't even remember what thread you're talking about. That you crow victory whenever something slips my mind or attention is p sad. Honestly I might have just considered you not worth the effort. Especially on such well-worn ground when you clearly have nothing new to offer. Obviously I haven't conceded because I still hold to my belief and continue to argue it.
Or maybe carthage posted and I thought "ew noooo! I can't possibly just not talk to him, clearly I need to abandon the thread! Totes not conceding tho!" 😆
Also I'm not on CV.
Obviously I changed my mind. I don't enjoy seeing someone constantly attempting to counter my points without addressing them, and I chose not to address him. For someone who constantly backs out of debates because he perceives himself to being dog piled, you should understand more than most.
Interesting you say it slipped your attention, since you replied in the thread to different topics afterward. It was the Kas'im vs Shaak Ti thread btw (which I still haven't replied to DMB in, lmao that's ironic. Soon(TM))
Originally posted by Nephthys
Was that an argument? Its hard to tell when you're making a legit point or just flaming me tbh.Theres nothing but speculation against Khem. The writers had him tell you those things for a reason and they never give you a cause to doubt the reliability of those accounts. There is no reason at all for them to have Khem tell you incorrect things other than shits and giggles. Were they to be inaccurate the game would surely go out of its way to indicate this so as to actually serve a point. The fact that this is not the case indicates that Khem is telling the truth. Hord's hype has been supported by every source that's spoken of him and every source that's spoken of him has spoken highly. TFU is noted to be exaggerated and over the top, the entire premise of the game is to overblow Force feats. It's explicitly stated to be as such, while the arguments against Khem are empty supposition without a shred of proof that so much as dents the reliability of his accounts.
I honestly want to see where anyone ever said that TFU was exaggerated. I know they said they wanted things to be over the top...but that doesn't mean that the events aren't accurate, lawl. That's one possible way of making things "over the top" - the other is to just give you control of characters who are legitimately powerful. The latter interpretation fits better with both pre-Disney canon policy and suspension of disbelief, and oh, just happens to be something the creators themselves said - they said they wanted Galen to represent what Luke would've looked like if he'd been trained by Vader. They didn't say "Galen actually isn't that powerful, we just artificially distort reality for your entertainment, and we made sure the novelization and comic adaption would as well!" Your attempt to dismiss the aforementioned feats because they don't fit with your personal head canon and reveal that nobody in your precious little mmorg outside of maybe Vitiate is on Vader/Galen's tier is not a reason for anyone else to follow along.
BTW, since you've upheld Khem's utter honesty and infallibility, I suppose we also have to conclude that Darth Nox is more powerful than Tulak Hord now. Really convenient of you, because now I should start making Kit Fisto vs. Tulak Hord threads. 👆