Originally posted by NephthysShe's her successor in spirit, the spirit of Sith succession being someone more powerful than their predecessor... right.
No it doesn't, lol. Nox never had to overcome Hord, which would necessitate that logic. She's his successor in spirit, not power or ability.
Why else do you think Khem claimed Nox a worthy successor, her dress sense?
Originally posted by The Ellimist
So she's orders of magnitude weaker than Hord, but is still "good enough" to inherit his loyalty?Anyway, Tulak still gets destroyed.
Yes.
No.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
She's her successor in spirit, the spirit of Sith succession being someone more powerful than their predecessor... right.Why else do you think Khem claimed Nox a worthy successor, her dress sense?
No, not really. This isn't the RoT, bro. (notthatimconcedinganythingabouttherotconcerningpowerincreasedonteven****ingtryit)
In terms of legacy. Its not hard to freaking figure out.
So? It's not an exclusive Rule of Two concept (that being that there can only be two) rather its the bedrock of Sith philosophy. Strength determines everything.
Yet so difficult for you to articulate. Let me do it for you. The thing a Sith values above all is strength, therefore to be a worthy successor to Hord Khem (who downplays Nox's strength above all else from the moment they meet) must have reached the conclusion that Nox at least rivals Hord's abilities to be worthy of succeeding him. Especially considering that Khem is biased towards Hord and against Nox.
P.S. Concerning the steady increase in power regarding the Rule of Two, nobody needs your concession when its an established fact. 🙂
Originally posted by Beniboybling
So? It's not an exclusive Rule of Two concept (that being that there can only be two) rather its the bedrock of Sith philosophy. Strength determines everything.Yet so difficult for you to articulate. Let me do it for you. The thing a Sith values above all is strength, therefore to be a worthy successor to Hord Khem (who downplays Nox's strength above all else from the moment they meet) must have reached the conclusion that Nox at least rivals Hord's abilities to be worthy of succeeding him. Especially considering that Khem is biased towards Hord and against Nox.
P.S. Concerning the steady increase in power regarding the Rule of Two, nobody needs your concession when its an established fact. 🙂
Not all the time. You can succeed someone without actually being as strong or stronger than them. Especially when theres such a long gap between the two and no actual relation. Khem is just making up a title, theres no actual succession. She's not succeeding him in anything other than Khems bromance. If a Sith dies, the person who inherits their position and prestige doesn't need to be as strong as them. Or even nearly as strong. You think the Dark Council was just a steady increase in power? Or that when a Sith Lord dies everyone around them flexes to see who inherits his lands and titles and if they aren't as bad a dude as he was, they just walk away?
Again, Khem isn't a Sith. How hard is that to grasp? He doesn't need to think Nox is comparable to Hord in strength to conclude that she's a powerful Sith in her own right, worthy of his respect and able to carry on Hord's legacy in some arbitrary manner. If all Khem cared about was strength he'd proclaim Vitiate Hords heir. Nox is his heir because she found his artifacts, bound his greatest servant and proved herself capable of crushing her enemies. Nothing else is required for Khem to get a boner over her.
I love how Neph masturbates at night to Tulak Hord vaguely bringing down a cruiser in undisclosed conditions, but just dismisses Galen Marek doing a similar thing to an imperial star destroyer, disintegrating a frigate, one-shotting hundreds of stormtroopers at once with telekinesis, and taking out entire AT-AT's with his lightning. 👆
Originally posted by NephthysKhem is doing what's called recognising Nox's abilities as being worthy of succeeding Hord's, its that simple, everything else you said is besides the point. It's not as if he'd say anything different if Hord were still around.
Not all the time. You can succeed someone without actually being as strong or stronger than them. Especially when theres such a long gap between the two and no actual relation. Khem is just making up a title, theres no actual succession. She's not succeeding him in anything other than Khems bromance. If a Sith dies, the person who inherits their position and prestige doesn't need to be as strong as them. Or even nearly as strong. You think the Dark Council was just a steady increase in power? Or that when a Sith Lord dies everyone around them flexes to see who inherits his lands and titles and if they aren't as bad a dude as he was, they just walk away?Again, Khem isn't a Sith. How hard is that to grasp? He doesn't need to think Nox is comparable to Hord in strength to conclude that she's a powerful Sith in her own right, worthy of his respect and able to carry on Hord's legacy in some arbitrary manner. If all Khem cared about was strength he'd proclaim Vitiate Hords heir. Nox is his heir because she found his artifacts, bound his greatest servant and proved herself capable of crushing her enemies. Nothing else is required for Khem to get a boner over her.
And no they don't, that's called the difference between a successor and a worthy one. 👆
Finally the fact that Khem isn't a Sith doesn't mean he isn't an advocate of their beliefs, of course he is, he was a loyal servant to a Sith Lord and frequently marvels at the current Sith Empire's displays of power, he clearly gives a shit, and shares their ideals. And no Vitiate is not relevant for the reasons you stated, and considering Khem's initial hatred for Nox, I imagine he set the bar quite high.
Really you are trying some desperate mental gymnastics to invalidate this obvious fact, I thought you would embrace the Nox wank tbh. Obviously you don't have that much faith in Nox's powers. It's true, he's nowhere near Marek. 🙂
Originally posted by The EllimistOh that only works if you dismiss TFU as inaccurate, that's really the only argument Neph has here. 🙂
👆Anyway, what exactly are Tulak's feats which put him on Marek's level? How do his accolades do that? All they say are that he's like a really good duelist or something.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Again there is a difference between lies and hyperbole, embellishing on and/or generalising the truth doesn't make Khem a flat out liar, especially considering this stuff happened thousands of years ago, so we can't exactly expect perfect memory recall. For example I could and others have claimed that Galen Marek pulled down a Star Destroyer (and an observer might even have seen it that way) but it truth it was already falling and he merely altered its flight path.Nor do we know the circumstances surrounding Hord's accomplishments, for example did Khem omit to mention the ship was damaged, its engines perhaps? How far was it off the ground? We don't know.
Yes, Khem's enamored perspective on Hord is absolutely reason to see his accomplishments through rose-tinted spectacles, skewing them in the best possible way. In fact I see people earnestly do so on these forums all the time. To which I'd add are often ignored because yes, there opinions are biased.
But sure, the option to take his claims literally is open to you, but what you claimed is that there is absolutely no reason to doubt him. And that's just not true.
The difference is that Khem was actually there to see those things. He's not going to misremember Hord fighting an army of Jedi or pulling a capital ship down right in front of him. Those aren't the things kind of things you forget. The Marek thing is mostly confusion over the trailer showing him pulling one down tbh.
The circumstances don't really have anything to do with Khem's reliability. Regardless, he says that Hord pulled it out of the sky. If it was already falling, obviously that wouldn't apply. And he says he pulled it out of the sky, so it clearly wasn't 5 feet off the ground. Not that that would impact the feat much.
Or maybe he's enamored by Hord because he see's him doing those kinds of crazy things. People have a stake in skewing things to win debates. Khem at this point doesn't respect Nox much, he's trying to impress him. He brings it up out of the blue, upon seeing the Endar Spire and comparing it to Hord's accomplishment.
I claimed that there's no reason for the writers to have him be wrong here, which you're ignoring. Khem isn't a real person, Beni, he's not actually going to be misremembering things cuz he doesn't have real memories. The writers have him tell you these things to provide exposition on Tulak Hord from someone who knew him directly. They never give you a specific reason to doubt what he's telling you. He's not shown to be wrong in anything he says.
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Lol quote the full source material, that's referring to movie continuity vs. its EU depictions. Which correspond to established rules in canon. The TFU novel is an entirely inclusive source, and has no higher source it can contradict. None of these rules apply. 😬
Oh ok I was confused by the term "every piece of published Star Wars fiction", I thought they actually said every piece but obviously I was mistaken. 😬
Originally posted by Beniboybling
Khem is doing what's called recognising Nox's abilities as being worthy of succeeding Hord's, its that simple, everything else you said is besides the point. It's not as if he'd say anything different if Hord were still around.And no they don't, that's called the difference between a successor and a worthy one. 👆
Finally the fact that Khem isn't a Sith doesn't mean he isn't an advocate of their beliefs, of course he is, he was a loyal servant to a Sith Lord and frequently marvels at the current Sith Empire's displays of power, he clearly gives a shit, and shares their ideals. And no Vitiate is not relevant for the reasons you stated, and considering Khem's initial hatred for Nox, I imagine he set the bar quite high.
Really you are trying some desperate mental gymnastics to invalidate this obvious fact, I thought you would embrace the Nox wank tbh. Obviously you don't have that much faith in Nox's powers. It's true, he's nowhere near Marek. 🙂
Uh, yes he would. You can't have it both ways. So you think Khem is so enamored by Hord that he imagines him being able to solo armies and rip capital ships out of the sky, but also he thinks that he's comparable to Nox, who can't do either of those things?
You're not an expert on what Khem considers worthy.
A servant doesn't follow their masters beliefs. Khem was loyal to Hord because he respected him as the first warrior who bested him, with Nox being the second. And obviously he respects power, but that doesn't mean that you need to be Hord levels of powerful to get his respect. Nox beat him and then jumped up in strength to exceedingly respectable levels.
If Khem thinks Nox is comparable to a Tulak Hord who solo's a thousand Jedi and tears capital ships out of the sky, then he very much is near Marek. And it's not in the latter's favor. 🙂 You know, maybe I should concede so we can powerscale the rest of Swtor around that, whatcha think? Since Malgus TK'd Nox I'm thinking he can lift mountains. Obviously Vitiate is continent level. Godlander is planetary.