NYC Buisness Transgender Fines

No I brought up that what could happen next is people getting fined for calling people other names like kunts, etc.

The point of bringing up the kunt word was this is about hurt feelings, so then we should just fine people whenever their feelings are hurt.

Let's hope someones precious feelings aren't hurt if they don't get a promotion, they might get triggered.

Thanks for that.

But this is just getting out of hand. Now we're fining people for using the wrong pronouns. This is just crazy. This is .3% of the damn population lol.

Yea its stupid, here comes B42 to tell us how we have to change the world for .3% of population.

I don't think even Bardock could come up with a legit excuse for why this is good.

Originally posted by Surtur
But this is just getting out of hand. Now we're fining people for using the wrong pronouns. This is just crazy. This is .3% of the damn population lol.

True, but the way some people go on and on about this it's like we're oppressing a massive part of the population.

Originally posted by Surtur
But this is just getting out of hand. Now we're fining people for using the wrong pronouns. This is just crazy. This is .3% of the damn population lol.

It's not even 0.3% because probably only a small % of that 0.3% even wants to label themselves with something other than he/she/him/her etc.

Here is a question though, how do we define transgender? At what point does a person become trans? I mean, you see some people going "oh you will having pedophiles claiming they are female to go into the girls bathroom" and all that. But then you have the other people who go "well trans people go through months of therapy and take hormones and do all this".

So we need to be able to easily define this. So when are you a trans? Can I technically just go "I identify as a motherf*cking female" and that is it?

At the very least we need to figure this out because if we're going to make a big fuss about these people we can't have it so you can randomly just go "meh I decide I'm female today".

Originally posted by Surtur
No I brought up that what could happen next is people getting fined for calling people other names like kunts, etc.

The point of bringing up the kunt word was this is about hurt feelings, so then we should just fine people whenever their feelings are hurt.

Let's hope someones precious feelings aren't hurt if they don't get a promotion, they might get triggered.

I think these are key sentences
"The city insisted that accidentally misusing a transgender person’s preferred pronoun is not against the law and would not be subject to a fine."

"Penalties of up to $250,000 can be imposed for violations that are deemed to be the result of malicious intent."

So I think the intent should be clearly stated in this thread. This doesn't seem to be something that is meant to happen to anyone that makes a mistake. It seems a more proper scenario would be a boss using things like n-word towards their african american employees intentionally to make a hostile work environment more them.

Or in your example it would be like calling your female coworker a "Kunt" over and over to her in an attacking, demeaning manner. So it sounds like the goal of this law is to prevent abuse at the workplace. Which is understandable to me.

Of course when we start to get into the idea of fining people over words I get a little antsy. Still I can understand the law. It would be the same as fining and possibly arresting coworkers or employers for threatening violence in terms of is intended.

I just feel that we should at least acknowledge what they are trying to do while we discuss this topic.

Wait some people request a different third person plural (ie "hir"😉?! That's ****ing stupid tbh. The word "they" is already a term that refers to everyone and is not gendered, does not giving people their own specially gendered word when nobody else has it count as discrimination now?

It's like when I heard someone whining that "hermaphrodite" was an offensive term because it also refered to plants and animals (ignoring the fact that "male" and "female" refer to plants and animals as well, and forgetting the fact that humans are animals)

What if we just refuse to use the terms and choose simply not to use those terms for political reasons (aka "I refuse to have my government dictate what words I can use and when I can use them"😉 rather than prejudicial reasons? Can they just opt NOT to speak to the oversensitive person?

And how are they planning to police this? I can already see some money grubbing ppl taking advantage of this to sue ppl just because they made a mistake/aren't aware of such a silly law.

What happened to freedom of speech? Of the right to have an opinion?

This law seems crazy to me, I mean how'd it even get passed?

Originally posted by Newjak
So I feel like people should read the article a bit closer.

I think these are key sentences
"The city insisted that accidentally misusing a transgender person’s preferred pronoun is not against the law and would not be subject to a fine."

"Penalties of up to $250,000 can be imposed for violations that are deemed to be the result of malicious intent."

So I think the intent should be clearly stated in this thread. This doesn't seem to be something that is meant to happen to anyone that makes a mistake. It seems a more proper scenario would be a boss using things like n-word towards their african american employees intentionally to make a hostile work environment more them.

Or in your example it would be like calling your female coworker a "Kunt" over and over to her in an attacking, demeaning manner. So it sounds like the goal of this law is to prevent abuse at the workplace. Which is understandable to me.

Of course when we start to get into the idea of fining people over words I get a little antsy. Still I can understand the law. It would be the same as fining and possibly arresting coworkers or employers for threatening violence in terms of is intended.

I just feel that we should at least acknowledge what they are trying to do while we discuss this topic.

I know, in another post I said it's if you do it on purpose. This is not something where they'll fine you for an accident, it's essentially an a-hole fine.

It's pretty ridiculous to have fines of up to 250k. If calling someone the wrong pronoun on purpose causes that much trauma that just backs up my "transgenders are mentally ill" line of thought.

Even calling someone the N word, while wrong, shouldn't result in a 250k fine. Just fire someone if they do this. Or make them take sensitivity training.

So yes you won't get fined for accidentally calling a she a he, but if you do it on purpose you can get fined up to 250k lol. That will never be something that isn't ridiculous.

I also think threatening violence is way way different then being referred to as the wrong pronoun lol. So I can't understand this law at all.

Plus again I ask how we determine who is a trans? Would you be okay with just anyone being able to say "hey I'm a lady"? Would you require hormone therapy, psychiatric therapy, etc. before someone is considered it?

How do you also feel about them asking the parents of 4 yr. olds what their children identify as? No child is going to understand or even KNOW what they will turn out to identify as at such an age. At what point do you feel we can say this entire thing has gotten out of hand?

Is Hillary already in office or what's going on?

If she becomes president I really hope I don't get somehow fined for calling her Hilldog. Note to government: I really don't think Hilary is part dog. She couldn't be, dogs are loyal and they don't lie.

Originally posted by Surtur
I know, in another post I said it's if you do it on purpose. This is not something where they'll fine you for an accident, it's essentially an a-hole fine.

It's pretty ridiculous to have fines of up to 250k. If calling someone the wrong pronoun on purpose causes that much trauma that just backs up my "transgenders are mentally ill" line of thought.

Even calling someone the N word, while wrong, shouldn't result in a 250k fine. Just fire someone if they do this. Or make them take sensitivity training.

So yes you won't get fined for accidentally calling a she a he, but if you do it on purpose you can get fined up to 250k lol. That will never be something that isn't ridiculous.

And once again this only if the person is doing so with a malicious intent. So creating a hostile work environment in the workplace results from this.

We already have laws on the books against this type of behavior. For instance sexual harassment, religious attacks. This isn't something new in that regards. I would be interested to know how New York's fines work in those situations to see if it is actually that different.

Also I haven't said I completely agree with it but it isn't just an a-hole tax. An average citizen walking down the street can't be fined for refusing to use those pronouns. This is purely from a workplace perspective. And I honestly think this isn't about a one time slip up or a one time refusal. I think the malicious part is literally trying to be attacking of an employee. Like using the N-word in a repeating and demeaning manner. Which if you as an employee consciously try to make a horrible environment for your employees you should be fired.

Originally posted by Newjak
I do think 250 sounds high but at the same point it's meant to be a major deterrent for employers. So I doubt Mom and Pop store one would get hit with this fine but Wall Street major firm could get that.

But that isn't fair though is it? If the Mom and Pop store does it just as much as the Wall Street firm, they should pay the same fines right? Otherwise it's like saying the less wealthy and successful you are the more acceptable it is for you to be a complete tool.

Also for these big successful companies 250k isn't really going to hurt them much right? So it's not going to deter the really big businesses.

And once again this only if the person is doing so with a malicious intent. So creating a hostile work environment in the workplace results from this.

I agree, but then just fire the person. Why make them pay boatloads of cash? Is the money going into the trans persons pocket? The fine doesn't help trans people, it helps the government lol. It's not like they'll be donating the money to a charity. I think firing the person would be better then forcing the firm to pay 250k.

Which not all businesses could even afford such a fine, and as I pointed out it's totally not fair to only apply this law to huge businesses. So what if the fine can't be paid? Do we jail someone? What if in order to pay the fine the company essentially goes bankrupt? So now innocent people might even lose their jobs because a transgender person got their feelings hurt? And this is justice? We've already had a bunch of innocent people lose jobs over this friggin transgender issue.

We already have laws on the books against this type of behavior. For instance sexual harassment, religious attacks. This isn't something new in that regards. I would be interested to know how New York's fines work in those situations to see if it is actually that different.

I know we do have laws and stuff, but even sexual harassment isn't worth 250k. Hell or even 100k. It wouldn't surprise me if it did carry such heavy fines, but I don't think it should.

Also I haven't said I completely agree with it but it isn't just an a-hole tax. An average citizen walking down the street can't be fined for refusing to use those pronouns. This is purely from a workplace perspective. And I honestly think this isn't about a one time slip up or a one time refusal. I think the malicious part is literally trying to be attacking of an employee. Like using the N-word in a repeating and demeaning manner. Which if you as an employee consciously try to make a horrible environment for your employees you should be fired.

But it is an a-hole tax, it's just for workplace a-holes. Yep, you're a dick if you refer to someone as the wrong pronoun. It's not worth 250 k though. Suspend the person, fire the person, but don't potentially f*ck over an entire company over some hurt feelings.

What would be so wrong with giving the person the option of doing sensitivity training or losing their job? Since the only person who benefits from the 250k fine is the government, the trans person doesn't. It's funny how the government profits over the suffering of individual people.

But as a side note: what do you think about them asking the parents of young children what they want to identify as? I even heard this one story on the radio where a classroom would call each student by name and if they identified as a boy they went to one side of the room and if they identified as a girl they went to the other side.

What if I identify as a king?

Can I have ppl call me lord and master or maybe m'lord and then cry to the government when ppl refuse to call me by the name I want them to call me so I can get the guy fined 250k?

Or here is a more tame potential example: I'm sure you've all seen these things with like bars where they have the "Ladies Night". Where the ladies either drink free or for a substantial discount. Well first of all where the f*ck are the "men drink free" nights? I love that equality.

Anyways that isn't the point though, what if I go to a bar that gives females a 75% discount on drinks every Thursday. What if I demand this discount because I say I identify as a female? What should happen if they refuse?

What about age? What if I'm 18, but in my mind I feel like I'm 30. Can I buy booze? If not, why is it okay to say you are female if you have a dick, but it's not okay to identify as someone older and more mature? Who decides this?

I'm being serious: how far do we let these pretenders go? It shouldn't be okay to pretend you're a different gender, but not a different race or age.