NYC Buisness Transgender Fines

Originally posted by Surtur
But that isn't fair though is it? If the Mom and Pop store does it just as much as the Wall Street firm, they should pay the same fines right? Otherwise it's like saying the less wealthy and successful you are the more acceptable it is for you to be a complete tool.

Also for these big successful companies 250k isn't really going to hurt them much right? So it's not going to deter the really big businesses.

I agree, but then just fire the person. Why make them pay boatloads of cash? Is the money going into the trans persons pocket? The fine doesn't help trans people, it helps the government lol. It's not like they'll be donating the money to a charity. I think firing the person would be better then forcing the firm to pay 250k.

Which not all businesses could even afford such a fine, and as I pointed out it's totally not fair to only apply this law to huge businesses. So what if the fine can't be paid? Do we jail someone? What if in order to pay the fine the company essentially goes bankrupt? So now innocent people might even lose their jobs because a transgender person got their feelings hurt? And this is justice? We've already had a bunch of innocent people lose jobs over this friggin transgender issue.

I know we do have laws and stuff, but even sexual harassment isn't worth 250k. Hell or even 100k. It wouldn't surprise me if it did carry such heavy fines, but I don't think it should.

But it is an a-hole tax, it's just for workplace a-holes. Yep, you're a dick if you refer to someone as the wrong pronoun. It's not worth 250 k though. Suspend the person, fire the person, but don't potentially f*ck over an entire company over some hurt feelings.

What would be so wrong with giving the person the option of doing sensitivity training or losing their job? Since the only person who benefits from the 250k fine is the government, the trans person doesn't. It's funny how the government profits over the suffering of individual people.

But as a side note: what do you think about them asking the parents of young children what they want to identify as? I even heard this one story on the radio where a classroom would call each student by name and if they identified as a boy they went to one side of the room and if they identified as a girl they went to the other side.

Also once again I doubt 250 is going to be the standard fine. I'm assuming the average handout is going to much smaller than that.

Also keep saying just fire them. What if it is the owner doing it? How do you just fire them?

Originally posted by Newjak
I actually think an equal penalty among small to big firms is unfair. Because if you set the fine at 1000 the big firms don't feel the pinch but little businesses could. It's like speeding tickets. The poorer you are the worse it is for you. I think adjustable fines for people of higher status is more fair. That way the punishment is equal in how it effects the person being punished.

But even 250k is but a drop in the ocean if the company makes billions of dollars a year. So what then? Here what about this: Bill Gates purposely calls a dude a dude even though he identifies as female. How much should Bill be fined? Literally even a billion dollar fine would be utterly inconsequential.

I also think everyone should pay the same fine though if they break a law. So I'm like low middle class, if I get a $75 ticket for speeding..I expect some poor guy from the ghetto to get the exact same penalty if they are caught speeding.

Otherwise where do we draw the line? What if one guy mugs someone and robs them just for the hell of it. What if another guy does the same thing, but only because they can't afford to feed their families? BOTH men should receive the same punishment, right?

Also once again I doubt 250 is going to be the standard fine. I'm assuming the average handout is going to much smaller than that.

Also keep saying just fire them. What if it is the owner doing it? How do you just fire them?

It's hard to say, but what if the only way to punish someone is with a large fine, but that large fine essentially f*cks the company over and will cause it to either lay off everyone there or lay off a sizable amount of people. What then? Do the hurt feelings of one person just override all the people depending on that job?

Like look at Paypal. They were set to build an office in North Carolina, but this new transgender bathroom law had them cancel that. Now we can ignore the fact Paypal has offices in other countries that treat homosexuals and trans people far far worse...but what we can't ignore is that by making such a fuss over this Paypal has now taken away 400 jobs from innocent people.

Also if someone gets fined a massive amount of money because they treated me badly..shouldn't I get the money? Why should some tools in the government get it? Their feelings weren't hurt lol.

You also still haven't commented on the thing about the children.

Originally posted by Surtur
But even 250k is but a drop in the ocean if the company makes billions of dollars a year. So what then? Here what about this: Bill Gates purposely calls a dude a dude even though he identifies as female. How much should Bill be fined? Literally even a billion dollar fine would be utterly inconsequential.

I also think everyone should pay the same fine though if they break a law. So I'm like low middle class, if I get a $75 ticket for speeding..I expect some poor guy from the ghetto to get the exact same penalty if they are caught speeding.

It's hard to say, but what if the only way to punish someone is with a large fine, but that large fine essentially f*cks the company over and will cause it to either lay off everyone there or lay off a sizable amount of people. What then? Do the hurt feelings of one person just override all the people depending on that job?

Like look at Paypal. They were set to build an office in North Carolina, but this new transgender bathroom law had them cancel that. Now we can ignore the fact Paypal has offices in other countries that treat homosexuals and trans people far far worse...but what we can't ignore is that by making such a fuss over this Paypal has now taken away 400 jobs from innocent people.

Also if someone gets fined a massive amount of money because they treated me badly..shouldn't I get the money? Why should some tools in the government get it? Their feelings weren't hurt lol.

You also still haven't commented on the thing about the children.

As to your notion of hurting people via withholding jobs...that just comes off as a shift of blame to me. Oh look at Pay Pal they are refusing to open an office they are so evil. It is there purgative to choose where to put offices. If North Carolina really wanted that business then perhaps they shouldn't have passed such a terrible law to begin with.

As for the children. I chose not to answer it simply because I didn't want to if I'm honest.

Originally posted by Newjak
There are still companies in between large and small firms. Also most large corporations still worry about being fined because of things like loss of profit or pr issues. That's why people have to go through sexual harassment lectures because big companies want to avoid it.

I still think they should face equal punishment. Otherwise we're just saying the richer you are the less acceptable it is to be a tool.

But anyways I'm just going to ask you flat out: say you have a medium sized business and they do this. But then let us also say that giving them any type of fine that would actually HURT the business would lead to a number of people losing their jobs. Should the company still be fined? Do the hurt feelings of one person outweigh the livelihoods of the innocent employee's? Surely you wouldn't want to cost innocent people their jobs because their boss hurt a single individuals feelings?

As to your notion of hurting people via withholding jobs...that just comes off as a shift of blame to me. Oh look at Pay Pal they are refusing to open an office they are so evil. It is there purgative to choose where to put offices. If North Carolina really wanted that business then perhaps they shouldn't have passed such a terrible law to begin with.

It's not blame shifting to talk about the real consequences to this craziness. Paypal aren't evil they are just hypocritical d-bags. They have built offices and have future plans for even more offices in countries that treat people way way worse. So you see it's not even about right and wrong anymore. It's getting upset just for the sake of getting upset.

Being a victim has become very popular in this country. So has appearing to be some kind of moral crusader. It is their prerogative to choose where they open offices up, but I'd at least expect them to be consistent with their outrage.

As for the children. I chose not to answer it simply because I didn't want to if I'm honest.

But you do think it's utterly silly right? You think this has gone too far?

Originally posted by Surtur
I still think they should face equal punishment. Otherwise we're just saying the richer you are the less acceptable it is to be a tool.

It's not blame shifting to talk about the real consequences to this craziness. Paypal aren't evil they are just hypocritical d-bags. They have built offices and have future plans for even more offices in countries that treat people way way worse. So you see it's not even about right and wrong anymore. It's getting upset just for the sake of getting upset.

Being a victim has become very popular in this country. So has appearing to be some kind of moral crusader.

But you do think it's utterly silly right? You think this has gone too far?

It is blame shifting. You're trying to paint Pay Pal in a negative light to deflect from the fact this never would have happened had it not been for a discriminatory law being passed. You can call them hypocrites all you want but it doesn't change the core cause of the issue. I don't even know if Pay Pal is doing this as a pr stunt or not but it doesn't change what you're trying to use them for.

You see I don't see it as a problem of victims becoming popular I actually think we have an issue in this country where we are very dismissive of victims. And I think that is a more harmful mindset because it tries to trivialize real problems that face real people. For instance this bathroom bill is a very discriminatory bill that forces a group of individuals to be considered criminals and possibly fined simply because they are different. Yet I've heard you say well what's done is done they should just get over it since the bill has been passed.

I don't know if it is silly or not. There is probably some merit to it. But the main reason I don't want to talk about the children part is because you've already made up your mind so I don't see a point or have a desire to talk to you about it because I know it won't matter if I actually look into to see if this is a good day and look at studies it will just be a waste of my time.

Originally posted by Newjak
I don't think an equal fine is equal punishment though as I have already stated.

I just think punishment should depend on the severity of the crime.

Let me ask another question thought, what about serving jail time? By this I mean let us say you have two people who commit a crime worthy of a few years in prison, it was a non-violent crime. One person is wealthy while the other person is quite poor. The poor person being in jail for even a year would have a devastating effect on his finances and it would have a devastating effect on the mans family since now they have nobody bringing in money.

Should the poor man getting a lighter jail sentence because of this?

It is blame shifting. You're trying to paint Pay Pal in a negative light to deflect from the fact this never would have happened had it not been for a discriminatory law being passed. You can call them hypocrites all you want but it doesn't change the core cause of the issue. I don't even know if Pay Pal is doing this as a pr stunt or not but it doesn't change what you're trying to use them for.

I don't need to try, they already painted themselves in a negative light. But that isn't a blame shift, I'm just talking about the consequences of this.

How is it not a pr stunt? They have built offices in places that treat people a lot worse. Not just trans people, but the entire homosexual community. If they truly just had problems over this for the right reasons then they'd of taken a lot more action then simply not building in one specific state. I'm not trying to say that this would of still happened even if the bill never got passed.

I'm not saying it's okay to be a dick on purpose, I just don't think innocent people should suffer as a result, don't you agree?

You see I don't see it as a problem of victims becoming popular I actually think we have an issue in this country where we are very dismissive of victims. And I think that is a more harmful mindset because it tries to trivialize real problems that face real people. For instance this bathroom bill is a very discriminatory bill that forces a group of individuals to be considered criminals and possibly fined simply because they are different. Yet I've heard you say well what's done is done they should just get over it since the bill has been passed.

I have a problem with the victim status in this country because it has become a status like being wealthy. In order words..some people ASPIRE to be victims. They seek it out, they legitimately want to be victimized and if they don't get it they will just lie about it. What other reason would people do things like..having a Jewish person drawing swastika's outside their dorm room and then pretending like someone else did it? Because they want to be in the spot light, they want that victim status. Or the black women who lied about said a white girl committed a hate crime against them.

So how do you not see this as a problem when it has people who aren't victims trying to turn themselves into victims for no reason?

For me I think common sense needs to apply. If you look and act like a woman then use the women's bathroom. If you don't look or act like a female then go take a piss in the men's bathroom.

I don't know if it is silly or not. There is probably some merit to it. But the main reason I don't want to talk about the children part is because you've already made up your mind so I don't see a point or have a desire to talk to you about it because I know it won't matter if I actually look into to see if this is a good day and look at studies it will just be a waste of my time.

I don't think it's wrong to find this story silly though. Come on dude, these are kids as young as 4. You really just can't even form an opinion about this? I think you know it is silly.