Whose tech is superior ?

Originally posted by quanchi112
We already saw that this isn't the best they have as evidenced by the smile mining vessel being a threat to Starfleet itself.

Which tells us everything we need to know about the suposed superiority of the Starfleet. It gets taken down by a mining vessel.

Difference is we see much weaker rebel ships have the power to straight up down the executor. They didn't need the executor to stop attacking and have to also attack with a plot device.

What we see is the entire Rebel fleet focusing fire on one ship, apparently through the entirety of the Endor space battle. Just after that do they lose their bridge deflector shield. And then it just needed a pilot making it to their point defense weapons on a suicide run, managing to hit the bridge window of the Executor (roughly the size of his starfighter) at a speed of 3 km/s.

So if Star Trek had a fleet with the firepower of the RotJ Rebels (which it doesn't have), there could be a potential problem there. But there is not.

Vader wanted results. Way to ignore the context. He wanted results and didn't want to hear about excuses. We see an asteroid destroy a structure in the star destroyer. Shields didn't look impressive my exaggeratory mentally challenged friend.

Vader is still not suicidal, so he didn't think the asteroids weren't a threat for the Executor which, gosh, they weren't. And we see an asteroid impact that destroys a structure, by delivering the Force of a nuclear weapon on it. But only after constant bombardement with that kind of stuff for hours, given that we also see asteroids roughly the same size harmless exploding against their shields.

Again with the unprovable numbers to support your fanboyism.

How are the numbers unprovable. I know you're incapable of grasping math, given you haven an IQ that is somewhere between toast and a dead starfish, but it can be used to accurately describe what we see on screen. If you want to limit this debate to something you can comprehend, we probably need to argue this with pictures - and even then, I wouldn't be sure, if you'd get anything.

Post the clip again or reference the time stamp in the film.

What for? Scroll up.

Yes, but the difference is the Narada goes down to enemy fire and a black hole. The executor is decimated by smaller ships with firepower and a crash. Vengeance has all 72 torpedoes go off aboard without the shielding protecting the inside and it still doesn't explode apart. The context is entirely different when comparing those situations to the Executor.

The Executor goes down to focused fire of the entire Rebel fleet, after having been the main target of the aforementioned Rebel fleet throughout a rather long space battle. Stop ignoring the facts.

Hundreds if not thousands of much smaller ships not just one. It's like saying 1 guy took you out and then saying it's the same thing when hundreds take one guy out. Context.

You do realize, that I was ignoring context on purpose in order to show you how you form arguments? Nice that you saw how stupid that is. Now act accordingly.

We see the shields easily taken out when attacked by a much smaller and less powerful ship but that isn't the case in Trek.

Except we don't.

False. You lied when the dialogue makes it clear one more shot and they are done for. They were still firing. You continue to lie but this thread isn't the first time nor the last you'll blatantly lie to make Star Wars look better than it is.

I don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe this made sense inside your head. It doesn't in the real world.

What good did it serve ? Did Ren secure the prisoner ? Apparently the security is so lax one untrained in the force woman can easily escape the Stormtroopers and later trounce Kylo Ren.

Red herring. Pathetic.

So you admit it takes time for that Death Star. The other one on screen is highly weak to smaller ships and needs its fair share of Tie fighters to defend it from such an assault. Trek now has thousands of tiny ships.
😂

Trek has now thousands of tiny ships that could sit in space and watch how the next planet explodes, unless they have a Force user on board that would be strong enough in the Force to use it for an outright impossible shot in order to destroy the space station.

Starkiller base takes time and requires stars to power it up. This again takes time which means it can't fire and is susceptible to being attacked just like in the film.

Since Trek would still need years to get anywhere close to it, under the prerequisite that Starkiller Base itself doesn't move, this is a non-issue.

We see the rebels succeed due to the time they had. Han Solo and Finn just winged it and still came out on top. This fantasy that the starkiller or any of these other mega weapons take all of Trek out easily without being attacked needs to die.

Starkiller Base can fire at Trek from another Galaxy and do that for years before one Trek ships manages to travel to them with their lame ass speed. Fact.

We have an exploitable weakness in spades when in the film 30 rebel ships were enough to best the imperials tie fighter defenses of this station with Vader present as well.

It's "exploitable" for a Force user with the natural attunement to the Force that Luke Skywalker has, limiting the possibilities to one person: Luke Skywalker.

I am citing film depictions as my evidence. You're ignoring them and simply restating your silly claims., they are baseless and you're that insecure guy beating his chest but really you're terrified and won't see this debate through because you're a dishonest and biased poster.

If we exchange "you" and "I" here, we have a perfect description of this debate.

We see them take out superior ships and shielding on screen. We see a much weaker ship in the MF handle the star destroyers attacks. The enterprise can't handle the Narada or the Vengeances attacks without taking significant damage.

Your assumption, that anything in Trek is superior (especially shielding) is simply false. Based on onscreen evidence, "nerd math", offcial publications and anything else. Still you repeat it, because "Quanchi says so". Produce an argument for the superiority of weapons and shields in Trek or shut up.

Thanks for confessing yourself guilty of these crimes. Now attempt to atone for your sins.

🙄

You never had any intention of seeing this through and your responses get weaker each and every time. You ignore on screen evidence and continue to restate your baseless claims. Grow up.

Since everybody not Quanchi clearly sees that Star Wars does roflstomp Star Trek, there is no need to continue this. Go get a life, Quanchi.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He seemed to compare the two techs and laugh at Star Wars. His opinion carries weight. I can post another intelligent and renowned genius siding with trek to but why go to the trouble. We know they are more powerful so why beat a dead horse.

He made no comparison. He didn't showcase the destructive powers of a Star Wars starship in comparison to a starships power in Star Trek so no comparison was made. He based it off his own opinion and viewpoint which matters as much as anyone else's opinion/viewpoint when there's nothing factual behind it. I can show geniuses who have made broad scientific claims without anything substantial as well. A "Genius" isn't above being biased or wrong. His argument was literally "Star Trek laughed at laser technology that they saw in their universe as primitive."

I'm not invested in this argument nor do I care. Just pointing out that showing other people's opinions does not make your debate better nor prove the other person as being wrong. Stick to facts, evidence, and what we actually know between the two universes.

Originally posted by Nai
Which tells us everything we need to know about the suposed superiority of the Starfleet. It gets taken down by a mining vessel.

What we see is the entire Rebel fleet focusing fire on one ship, apparently through the entirety of the Endor space battle. Just after that do they lose their bridge deflector shield. And then it just needed a pilot making it to their point defense weapons on a suicide run, managing to hit the bridge window of the Executor (roughly the size of his starfighter) at a speed of 3 km/s.

So if Star Trek had a fleet with the firepower of the RotJ Rebels (which it doesn't have), there could be a potential problem there. But there is not.

Vader is still not suicidal, so he didn't think the asteroids weren't a threat for the Executor which, gosh, they weren't. And we see an asteroid impact that destroys a structure, by delivering the Force of a nuclear weapon on it. But only after constant bombardement with that kind of stuff for hours, given that we also see asteroids roughly the same size harmless exploding against their shields.

How are the numbers unprovable. I know you're incapable of grasping math, given you haven an IQ that is somewhere between toast and a dead starfish, but it can be used to accurately describe what we see on screen. If you want to limit this debate to something you can comprehend, we probably need to argue this with pictures - and even then, I wouldn't be sure, if you'd get anything.

What for? Scroll up.

The Executor goes down to focused fire of the entire Rebel fleet, after having been the main target of the aforementioned Rebel fleet throughout a rather long space battle. Stop ignoring the facts.

You do realize, that I was ignoring context on purpose in order to show you how you form arguments? Nice that you saw how stupid that is. Now act accordingly.

Except we don't.

I don't even know what you're talking about. Maybe this made sense inside your head. It doesn't in the real world.

Red herring. Pathetic.

Trek has now thousands of tiny ships that could sit in space and watch how the next planet explodes, unless they have a Force user on board that would be strong enough in the Force to use it for an outright impossible shot in order to destroy the space station.

Since Trek would still need [b]years to get anywhere close to it, under the prerequisite that Starkiller Base itself doesn't move, this is a non-issue.

Starkiller Base can fire at Trek from another Galaxy and do that for years before one Trek ships manages to travel to them with their lame ass speed. Fact.

It's "exploitable" for a Force user with the natural attunement to the Force that Luke Skywalker has, limiting the possibilities to one person: Luke Skywalker.

If we exchange "you" and "I" here, we have a perfect description of this debate.

Your assumption, that anything in Trek is superior (especially shielding) is simply false. Based on onscreen evidence, "nerd math", offcial publications and anything else. Still you repeat it, because "Quanchi says so". Produce an argument for the superiority of weapons and shields in Trek or shut up.

🙄

Since everybody not Quanchi clearly sees that Star Wars does roflstomp Star Trek, there is no need to continue this. Go get a life, Quanchi. [/B]

We see the rebels were focusing on tie fighters and other star destroyers. Quit lying. We see one ship take down the deflector shields and one more ship bring the oversized and overrated pile of shit down. That's the difference between that and the superior ships from Trek who completely outgun and outclass the inferior ships who come into contact with them. This isn't the case in Star Wars as non military grade inferior ships can make the imperials star destroyers look pathetic in comparison. They have thousands of tiny ships unlike the much smaller number of rebel ships which managed to spank the imperials asses in this space battle. Just from the preview alone the tiny new Trek ships flat out overwhelm the shitty star destroyers. Two rebels took it out for crying out loud.

A threat yes just not a credible one given the resources and manpower he had at his disposal. One enterprise managed to get through their asteroid field so why shouldn't the imperial forces be able to ? Exaggeration. Everything that destroys a Star Wars structure, character or planet seems to have the power of planetary destruction. Saying for hours isn't supported by anything other than your delusions.

You need a movie reference or official source to confirm the numbers. Only nerds of the highest order try to break them down and act like that counts for anything. Feel free to confirm your nerd math with an official source.

So you concede. Good, good.

The executor didn't face the entire rebel fleet alone. The executor had tie fighters and multiple star destroyers as well to back it up. You're such a despicable, context ignoring, delusional ignoramus. Trek is superior just accept it. They don't have to embrace war to be superior to the cavemen and retards that permeate the Star Wars Galaxy.

No, you were caught lying and have been exposed so you pretend it was on purpose. You're done here. Get the **** out of my thread.

We do. A smaller, weaker ship did so. Quit ignoring the clip just because you're upset at the pitiful imperial ships.

The MF was being attacked in ESB and you pretend they were purposely not trying to destroy the ship. That's false. Han's dialogue makes it clear despite their continued assault.

Film facts. Blundering. Excuses. Pitiful. Run from the facts they aren't going anywhere.

It was not impossible and Luke says so. Maybe for the pathetic rebels but you're acting like you need the force when Trek could kamikaze 20 ships into the smaller area. Luke even comments it's possible just a very hard shot.

False. In threads we don't start the participants hundreds of light years away so quit with the thread altering here.

We don't start galaxies away, numbskull. Star Wars fans and their obsession with giving Wars advantages because they need them to make this interesting.

No, it's exploitable for smaller ships to take advantage of the weakness of the Death Star. Quit ignoring this fact. You're ignoring the commanders words in the film. Not shocking at all.

Quit being ridiculous.

Trek superior ships not having their shields easily destroyed by two smaller, inferior rebel ships. We see the baddest star destroyer shields easily taken out by a few shots. That isn't the case with the Narada or the Vengeance. Boom.

Just because you're delusional and most on here want Star Wars to win that doesn't mean the evidence supports this claim. Trek wins. Better tech, better ships, and better mega weapons.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
He made no comparison. He didn't showcase the destructive powers of a Star Wars starship in comparison to a starships power in Star Trek so no comparison was made. He based it off his own opinion and viewpoint which matters as much as anyone else's opinion/viewpoint when there's nothing factual behind it. I can show geniuses who have made broad scientific claims without anything substantial as well. A "Genius" isn't above being biased or wrong. His argument was literally "Star Trek laughed at laser technology that they saw in their universe as primitive."

I'm not invested in this argument nor do I care. Just pointing out that showing other people's opinions does not make your debate better nor prove the other person as being wrong. Stick to facts, evidence, and what we actually know between the two universes.

My dear Quanchi,

you still fail to make any arguments for your case. You're just attempting to talk down Star Wars based on your gross missrepresentations of the things shown in the film or by cherrypicking the absolutely out-of-the-rule low showings in order to do so. You garnish that with random keywords, failing to provide any argument linked to them. Then you top it off with outright ignorance.

In short: You're just stating your opinion based on your (mis)interpretations. Since I'm not going to change your opinion, you are wrong and everybody reading here knows that you are wrong, continuing this discussion is absolutely pointless.

Thus:

Originally posted by Nai
Since everybody not Quanchi clearly sees that Star Wars does roflstomp Star Trek, there is no need to continue this. Go get a life, Quanchi.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He compared the Enterprise to the MF. He wasn't comparing the rest. Red matter>Starkiller base. I didn't say this proved it I said his opinion carries weight. He'd be like an expert witness but that doesn't mean he's sew up the case but most do agree experts opinions clearly matter over the common man.

Except he made no comparison. That's the problem. What did he compare? How did he compare it? I saw the video but there is no comparisons made. Not to mention, as Nai pointed out, this is what's known as appeal to authority. Expert opinions don't have any place in a debate if they're not factual. You gave a man's opinion. An expert who makes a baseless claim is still a man with a baseless claim. The problem here is that Nai even continuing the debate with you is him being generous. You've used multiple red herring, strawman tactics, appeal to authority, argumentum ad lapidum, and an appeal to silence. This is just the tip of the ice bergs of the logical fallacies you've provided during this debate. In any kind of formal debate this would have been seen, by the judges, a concession a long time ago.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Nai proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the Millennium Falcon is quite superior to the Enterprise. The destructive power of the Slave I as well being far more powerful than the starships Trek as at their disposal.

You claim Nai was "Caught lying" who thinks he's a liar aside from you? You haven't proven anything.

Further hyperspace travel is relevant. Let's say I compare a character who has the ability to teleport and then claim the fight starts at 10 meters. If someone then claims "he teleports 200 feet away and reigns firey death on them" (assuming he has the ability to rain fiery death) this is perfectly logical.

Originally posted by Nai
My dear Quanchi,

you still fail to make any arguments for your case. You're just attempting to talk down Star Wars based on your gross missrepresentations of the things shown in the film or by cherrypicking the absolutely out-of-the-rule low showings in order to do so. You garnish that with random keywords, failing to provide any argument linked to them. Then you top it off with outright ignorance.

In short: You're just stating your opinion based on your (mis)interpretations. Since I'm not going to change your opinion, you are wrong and everybody reading here knows that you are wrong, continuing this discussion is absolutely pointless.

Thus:

I backed my argument with facts while you attempts to ignore the context. You want to ignore key things and highlight some jerk on the executor saying to concentrate all firepower on the rebels when a whole twenty seconds later they get their deflector shields destroyed. We then see one ship crash bring them down. You want to ignore the multiple destroyers, tie fighters fighting in the background because you're a biased fella.

You've been trying to quit this debate the last five or six replies. If you want to quit which I predicted go ahead. Quit. Ignore the facts in favor of your own personal bias and delusions.

Trek exploits the weaknesses to the Wars weapons and decimates the sheer ineptitude permeating throughout the entire empire.

Trek wins.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
Except he made no comparison. That's the problem. What did he compare? How did he compare it? I saw the video but there is no comparisons made. Not to mention, as Nai pointed out, this is what's known as appeal to authority. Expert opinions don't have any place in a debate if they're not factual. You gave a man's opinion. An expert who makes a baseless claim is still a man with a baseless claim. The problem here is that Nai even continuing the debate with you is him being generous. You've used multiple red herring, strawman tactics, appeal to authority, argumentum ad lapidum, and an appeal to silence. This is just the tip of the ice bergs of the logical fallacies you've provided during this debate. In any kind of formal debate this would have been seen, by the judges, a concession a long time ago.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that Nai proved beyond a reasonable doubt that the Millennium Falcon is quite superior to the Enterprise. The destructive power of the Slave I as well being far more powerful than the starships Trek as at their disposal.

You claim Nai was "Caught lying" who thinks he's a liar aside from you? You haven't proven anything.

Further hyperspace travel is relevant. Let's say I compare a character who has the ability to teleport and then claim the fight starts at 10 meters. If someone then claims "he teleports 200 feet away and reigns firey death on them" (assuming he has the ability to rain fiery death) this is perfectly logical.

I wanted Nai to accept a judged debate with the three NuTrek films vs the Ot films. He didn't accept. So you see he's rather gutless especially since you've went on at length to discuss my debating errors.

What does the Slave 1 have to do with the MF ? Abc logic. It's kind of bad. This also wasn't about what's more powerful it's about who would win. Can you not see the difference ? Nai's a coward and he's retreated someone off screen more than likely under his covers and quivering in fear. He has lied multiple times about the context of the Star Wars feats and tried using horrific logic as well as unproven numbers in an attempt to deceive people into thinking wars is the superior force here when it's precisely the opposite.

They have to leave hyperspace to engage in battle so it's irrelevant. I've already explained why.

Originally posted by quanchi112
And you're reduced to this as in the end you always are. Just fall gently on your own sword as you go quietly into the night conceding to me. In the end you always have and you always will because you're gutless. I am debating based off film facts and you can't refute facts. You can cry about which facts I cite because you're biased and want to exaggerate everything Star Wars related probably due to the obsession you've had with this fantasy series your entire life.

I backed my argument with facts while you attempts to ignore the context. You want to ignore key things and highlight some jerk on the executor saying to concentrate all firepower on the rebels when a whole twenty seconds later they get their deflector shields destroyed. We then see one key crash bring them down and want to ignore the multiple destroyers, tie fighters fighting in the background because you're a biased fella.

You've been trying to quit this debate the last five or six replies. If you want to quit which I predicted go ahead. Quit. Ignore the facts in favor of your own personal bias and delusions.

Trek exploits the weaknesses to the Wars weapons and decimates the sheer ineptitude permeating throughout the entire empire.

Trek wins.

This is painful. He left because no matter what you weren't going to agree. It doesn't matter what facts someone sends you. Maintaining your belief no matter what until the opponent decides to simply exit the conversation isn't winning. Outlasting your debating partner isn't winning. This is painful because it's clear you don't know how to debate. Star Wars/Star Trek aside the only way to truly win a debate is to prove your side of the argument. If your peers are unconvinced you haven't won. You haven't convinced us that you're correct therefore you haven't won.

If, in the end of a debate competition, you're the only one who remains convinced of your side.. you have lost.

Who is more powerful is important. You argued who has better tech. Even if you can prove Star Trek wins through sheer numbers that doesn't prove that their tech is better. Just that they have more numbers. The starships destructive power in Star Trek seems to exceed those of Star Trek. With hyperspace they can travel far superior distances and arrive at locations en masse a lot quicker than Star Trek. Their shields seem to be superior. In terms of tech Star Wars looks to be the winner here.

As for whether or not he's guessing? No idea. I don't know how much he knows about Star Wars nor do I know how much he knows about Star Trek. Just because he's knowledgeable when it comes to science doesn't mean he knows the two franchises very well. If Bill Nye came out and claimed "Star Wars is superior to Warhammer in terms of technology and military might" I'd question how much he knew about Warhammer.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
This is painful. He left because no matter what you weren't going to agree. It doesn't matter what facts someone sends you. Maintaining your belief no matter what until the opponent decides to simply exit the conversation isn't winning. Outlasting your debating partner isn't winning. This is painful because it's clear you don't know how to debate. Star Wars/Star Trek aside the only way to truly win a debate is to prove your side of the argument. If your peers are unconvinced you haven't won. You haven't convinced us that you're correct therefore you haven't won.

If, in the end of a debate competition, you're the only one who remains convinced of your side.. you have lost.

Popularity isn't proof of anything only the facts matter my incredibly wrong enemy.

Originally posted by quanchi112
He left because he was exposed and doesn't have the stomach to see anything through. He always leaves debates whether it's against me or anyone else with an attention span. I gave him the opportunity to accept a three own three film debate battlezone. He declined. Once again he's gutless. If your peers are insanely declined to one side then they are biased and refuse to listen to common sense and reason. The world used to believe the world was flat. The world was wrong.

Popularity isn't proof of anything only the facts matter my incredibly wrong enemy.

That's not how debate works. You can call the forums "Blind, unwilling to see reason, etc." we feel that way about you but in the end we're not on a trek forum trying to argue in favor of star wars. You're here trying to convince us. Regardless of your reasons why you can't "convince us." the fact remains that we are unconvinced.

Yes the world used to think the earth was flat and at the time there were some people who believed the earth was round. These people also failed to prove it to the majority until years later. It took a lot of proof and convincing to make them open their eyes. In the end, those who believed the earth was round, prevailed. The ones before due to popularity to the belief, resistant to change, or lack of enough evidence, failed to convince the masses. In those days they lost the debate until they were able to provide data convincing enough. You can be right and still lose a debate (no this isn't me saying that you are right.)

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
That's not how debate works. You can call the forums "Blind, unwilling to see reason, etc." we feel that way about you but in the end we're not on a trek forum trying to argue in favor of star wars. You're here trying to convince us. Regardless of your reasons why you can't "convince us." the fact remains that we are unconvinced.

Yes the world used to think the earth was flat and at the time there were some people who believed the earth was round. These people also failed to prove it to the majority until years later. It took a lot of proof and convincing to make them open their eyes. In the end, those who believed the earth was round, prevailed. The ones before due to popularity to the belief, resistant to change, or lack of enough evidence, failed to convince the masses. In those days they lost the debate until they were able to provide data convincing enough. You can be right and still lose a debate (no this isn't me saying that you are right.)

Originally posted by quanchi112
If you show direct evidence to a fanatical religious believer to contradict their beliefs do you think they will change their minds ? I do not care if I change the minds of the fanatical or not. I am here to debate based off my interpretation of events and applying logic and common sense to a space battle between the two universes. So you do agree some won't change their minds despite being wrong and are resistant due to strong emotional connections to Star Wars. Bias is a powerful thing and unlike Nai I won't simply quit.

You don't consider obsessively trying to change the minds of those who don't agree with you the slight bit fanatical? Your post sounds a lot like an internet crusade. Nai doesn't need to continue with you until you give up because he's already won. Most of the people here already agree with him in this regard. He doesn't need to continue this. He's won already.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
You don't consider obsessively trying to change the minds of those who don't agree with you the slight bit fanatical? Your post sounds a lot like an internet crusade. Nai doesn't need to continue with you until you give up because he's already won. Most of the people here already agree with him in this regard. He doesn't need to continue this. He's won already.

Originally posted by Chosen_Sith
You don't consider obsessively trying to change the minds of those who don't agree with you the slight bit fanatical? Your post sounds a lot like an internet crusade. Nai doesn't need to continue with you until you give up because he's already won. Most of the people here already agree with him in this regard. He doesn't need to continue this. He's won already.

👆

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
👆

Nai ?

I told you all Trek is superior. This trailer shows off the swarm that's going to eat the empire alive coupled with the federation, Romulans, and Khan.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=3MBXBMkcUNo

Watch this and tremble, Nai. The gun Krall uses also is beyond the shitty Wars blasters we see throughout. I'm right and the evidence come this December will prove it.

🙂

Wars is superior until proven otherwise. 🙂