Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.
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As depicted in Age of Apocalypse, the full Phoenix Force is the only thing I've seen in a Marvel or DC movie beyond Apoc...
Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.
But yet creating a helmet doesn't mean you can magically whip up elements from other universes though. You can refer to it as a mere "space rock" in an attempt to try to say Apocalypse can create, but the fact of the matter is creating kryptonite is a far cry from what he created before. An element that doesn't exist on Earth or even in the universe as a whole. Creating a helmet constructed with known materials really doesn't even begin to compare.
I just don't know why we'd handwave him creating exotic alien materials because he created a helmet.
EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?
Originally posted by Surtur
But yet creating a helmet doesn't mean you can magically whip up elements from other universes though. You can refer to it as a mere "space rock" in an attempt to try to say Apocalypse can create, but the fact of the matter is creating kryptonite is a far cry from what he created before. An element that doesn't exist on Earth or even in the universe as a whole. Creating a helmet constructed with known materials really doesn't even begin to compare.I just don't know why we'd handwave him creating exotic alien materials because he created a helmet.
EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?
This is true, but Kryptonite is a rock with radioactive element that weakens and harms Superman. If he is able to figure out Superman's physiological structure; he could figure what radioactive elements to create to replicate Kryptonite.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
No limits fallacy.He almost lost his head to Psy..While Apoc is cool, he can still be torn apart or tossed into space.
You mean when Mystique disguised as Psylocke tried to slit his throat?
And unless Clark can get rid of his armor(which takes a whole lot), he's basically invulnerable and can instantly heal any damage.
And it's hard to toss a guy into space when he can just teleport.
You say almost lost his head. But he literally let her cut him, looked at her like she was stupid, and healed in 2 seconds. That was because he let her hit him. He has forcefields I don't see Clark getting through. Telepathy and mind control Clark doesn't have defenses against. And matter manipulation Clark can't fight.
Originally posted by Surtur
EDIT: Also just out of curiosity..how do you know how much Magneto knew about his helmet?
He didn't.
The original helmet was made for Sebastian Shaw by his Russian contacts. He had it made after he recruited Emma Frost. Shaw was rather paranoid regarding psychics. He knew that there was a definite probability that other psionic mutants existed, and thus had the helmet made, which he tested with Emma to make sure it worked.
The specifics of the helmets construction, other than it was some sort of metallic substances/alloys were used, was not made known to the audience. However, this raises 2 possible ways for Apocalypse to have learned it.
#1:
Spoiler:
He either got it when he literally downloaded all the computerised information through the television and radiowave broadcasts earlier in the movie.
#2:
Spoiler:
Or he got the info when he highjacked Xavier and Cerebro psionically, and for a long time, he had access to the minds and thoughts of the entire global population.
In either event, it wouldn't be hard for him to learn of the structure of kryptonite through various human corporations like Lexcorp or STARLabs who routinely use and experiment with the stuff. Once he has that info, he doesn't need to learn human techniques of making the stuff, or locating more, as he can simply atomically create the stuff out of thin air, or emit it's unique radiation through his powers easily enough.
Originally posted by KingD19
You say almost lost his head. But he literally let her cut him, looked at her like she was stupid, and healed in 2 seconds. That was because he let her hit him. He has forcefields I don't see Clark getting through. Telepathy and mind control Clark doesn't have defenses against. And matter manipulation Clark can't fight.
Its not me saying it, its screen feats, she Msy cut him deep and it took more then 2 seconds to heal.
It does not matter if he let her or not, the point is, he was cut.
Telepathy is a non issue here as he cannot control anyone or use TP on anyone that does not have TP. That mind fight was between other Tp's
Dont even think about applying it as his base core of feats and powers.
The whole point of the movie was he wanted that power to have access to everyone and guess what, he didn't get it, so its not his power, he never got it, and he can't use it on Clark
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Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
Its not me saying it, its screen feats, she Msy cut him deep and it took more then 2 seconds to heal.It does not matter if he let her or not, the point is, he was cut.
Telepathy is a non issue here as he cannot control anyone or use TP on anyone that does not have TP. That mind fight was between other Tp's
Dont even think about applying it as his base core of feats and powers.
The whole point of the movie was he wanted that power to have access to everyone and guess what, he didn't get it, so its not his power, he never got it, and he can't use it on Clark.
Actually... IIRC Apoc did have TP, just not Xavier's range where he could do it to the globe all at once. Apoc can get into individual minds just fine. He mindjacked Xavier twice after all, and once was through Cerebro.
Originally posted by KingD19
He's still shown to be able to manipulate matter to create something from the thoughts of a person.If he can make something as advanced as a psi-blocker helmet, right down to the design, dimensions, and color. He should be able to make a space rock. There's 100% more evidence he can do it than he can't.
So because he could replicate a Russian era helmet, he can create Knite.
Thats not how it works.
He cannot create knite, its not even from the same verse.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Actually... IIRC Apoc did have TP, just not Xavier's range where he could do it to the globe all at once. Apoc can get into individual minds just fine. He mindjacked Xavier twice after all, and once was through Cerebro.
He only had access once Xavier linked with him from cerebro. Cut it out, just cut the shit and lies right now. Apoc had zero TP ability besides his own metal defense, hence the point of the whole movie and wanting Charles powers.
Originally posted by Time-Immemorial
He only had access once Xavier linked with him from cerebro. Cut it out, just cut the shit and lies right now.
Calm down a little, I did say IIRC. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it looked like he jacked Xavier and Cerebro, THROUGH Erik no less. Xavier never linked directly to Apoc, En Sabah Nur forced that connection through Erik.
This is compounded when Apoc jacked Xavier directly when they were face to face to make his announcement to the world.
So, from the way I can see it, the only reason Apoc wanted Xavier's powers, was so he could cut out the middleman and mindjack the planet's population directly himself. That's not, shit, or lies, that's just how I interpreted the movie.
He did link directly to him, he said so himself. There is no mis interpretation what he actually said.
Apoc was telling Charles what to say, hence him saying it with his mouth and charles repeating it through his head to the world.
Xavier "Without Cerebro, I cannot do it"
Apoc "Why do you need a machine when you have me."
All APOC did was act like cerebro and enhance his power.
This is straight up movie feats that how could you forget if you just watched it last night like I did.
I suspect most will just make up shit and keep making it up until they get called out on it.
Originally posted by Darkstorm Zero
Calm down a little, I did say IIRC. Maybe I am wrong, but to me it looked like he jacked Xavier and Cerebro, THROUGH Erik no less. Xavier never linked directly to Apoc, En Sabah Nur forced that connection through Erik.This is compounded when Apoc jacked Xavier directly when they were face to face to make his announcement to the world.
So, from the way I can see it, the only reason Apoc wanted Xavier's powers, was so he could cut out the middleman and mindjack the planet's population directly himself. That's not, shit, or lies, that's just how I interpreted the movie.
That is exactly what happened.