Originally posted by zopzop

We're just gonna have to agree to disagree on this Mr. M


Fair enuff. We are brothers after all.
Originally posted by zopzop

How many times has Order/Chaos busted a universe on panel, in mainstream Marvel or in What Ifs?


You can't catch Order/Chaos busting universes when they are essential to universes.
Order/Chaos are part of what makes a universe function properly.
They're also below Eternity/Infinity so, I don't see why they should be able to.
I'm sure they can destroy the contents of a universe, (planets to galaxies) like the PF, but that's not Eternity/Infinity.

Anyway, remember old friend, Order/Chaos once ruled their own entire universe, known as the "Magick Realm."
It was from that universe (Magick) that they were the balance between Eternity and Death within 616.
They had no jurisdiction within 616, but they were "Gods" in the Magick Universe:

It also seems they created everything withIN their universe:

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As we both know, at some point this detail was lost to history,
and nowadays and for a good while actually,
Chaos/Order are intrinsically tied to the same reality as Eternity/Infinity.

So, Chaos/Order help maintain cosmic consonance and they're also subject to Eternity/Infinity's authority/power:

Master Order: "Eternity/Infinity have judged this matter none of our affair"

Lord Chaos: "We must obey he who is forever and she who is all"

Originally posted by zopzop

How many times has Eternity? How about Infinity? busted a universe?


Good question ... I'd say, more than either of us can count:

"Wolds within Worlds, Dimensions folding into themselves,
Entire UniverseS being born, and collapsing into ruin,
and yet I sense that all this -- is but a fraction of what Eternity is ...

Reads like a living perpetual creation/entropy event. 👆

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I remember a few cats going wild cause they thought Jean held that baby universe in her hands, lol ..

Eternity is Time incarnated ...

When he raises a Hand which holds whole universeS withIN it,

Past Present and Future"

Originally posted by zopzop

Maelstrom with Anomaly's power, the Quantum Bands unlocked by Cosmic Awareness, backing by Oblivion, and his own kinetic energy manipulation powers needed time to do it (he actually never finished his job so it shouldn't count) and only via a gigantic black hole he used his Anomaly powers to designate it the center of the universe (or it wouldn't have worked in the first place).


Which is why Maelstrom was a cornball.

He had all that power, and yet was stalemated by an Infinity amped Quasar.

To be fair, it was rumored Gruenwald was high on shrooms during that arc.

Originally posted by zopzop

Universe busting is a rarity on panel in Marvel.

If Galactus thought the PF could do it (and Death itself agreed), then it could do it.


I already agreed that the PF should be able to burn the contents of a universe. (planets to galaxies)

But space-time and the conceptiual abstracts?

Nah. The PF gots nothing there.