Beniboybling
Worst Member
Originally posted by Emperordmb
Sel, this is one thread where I freely admit to you ruining people.
Lawls.
Originally posted by Selenial
You're arguing in circles here. If, by your own admission, the technique is not a judge of combat effectiveness by itself then you are admitting you're judging his combat effectiveness solely from his feat with the clones. His dual blades shouldn't come into it, by your logic.
Erm no, by my logic these aspects should be considered holistically, which is what I'm doing. Not a difficult concept to grasp.
The thing is though, the technical skills required to wield these weapons is one thing. Yes, it's impressive that he doesn't kill himself. But Darach, Maul and Shaak Ti never specialised in this weapon form like he did. Shaak Ti has a lot of prior exposure, has never been shown wielding Jar'kai to any great extent and still outclasses Krell at his own game. So she has the technical skill required to wield this form, one must ask themself, why doesn't she? If the form has such inherent advantages, surely it would be a form she would master with most haste. Surely she'd carry the extra blades at least as a last line of defence, but she doesn't. She never utilises that form, except when in a huge crowd of individuals.Kao Cen Darach only utilised the form because he was facing an exceptionally fast Malgus, and a Vindican who wielded the excessive striking speed of a double bladed saber, Darach physically couldn't block them both without it. Yet when facing Vindican, he resorted to the simple two blades. Same against Malgus. Why? Evidently the form isn't as difficult or useful as your theories claim it to be, if it was, neither Jedi has reason to stop using it.
First off from a technical standpoint none of them "outclassed" Krell, as none of them went as far as to dual-wield saberstaffs. And we've no basis to assume they'd have performed as well if they had attempted to do so.
Second off what I'm saying isn't theoretical, several sources that state a saberstaff is an incredibly difficult and dangerous weapon to wield:
The New Essential Guide to Weapons and TechnologyUsing a double-bladed lightsaber is dangerous and difficult, because the weapon relies on totally different manoeuvres from those mastered during standard lightsaber exercises.
SWTOR EncyclopaediaWielding double-bladed lightsabers is incredibly dangerous, and unskilled Sith have ended their own lives - and the lives of those around them - when attempting to use such a weapon before their training is complete.
Skarch Vaunk, Jedi Battlemaster in The Jedi PathA familiar image from the last Sith War, the dual-bladed lightsaber is known as a Sith weapon, but there is nothing inherently wicked in its design. Using one takes years of study, and few Jedi - besides myself - can instruct you.
It's also just as deadly as I described:
Anakin Skywalker's annotations in The Jedi Path...in the hands of a dark side marauder it is difficult to defend against even for experienced masters.
SWTOR EncyclopaediaIn skilled hands, however, double-bladed lightsabers can strike with lightning speed to overwhelm and destroy even the most dangerous of enemies.
Again there is nothing theoretical about what I'm saying, and its only logical that wielding two saberstaffs would make the above true twice over. The ability of the likes of Ti, Darach, Maul etc. to wield a saberstaff alongside a lightsaber being a testament to
their skill, not a detriment to Krell's.
Now as far as it not being their preferable style, how this implies ease I do not know. If anything it would imply the opposite as it could be assumed they lacked the training and/or proficiency to wield to effectively as their favoured load-out.
On top of that I'd imagine in part it's because 1. they lack the upper body strength 2. its a simple matter of preference. Indeed difficulty and effectiveness are not relative, and every style has its strengths and weaknesses, otherwise everyone would be wielding saberstaffs.
But it remains a reflection of technical proficiency (as well as a difficult weapon to defend against) which is the point being made in this regard.
You also, as far as I noticed, never acknowledged Zoltan's interesting point about Skwelli, the Jedi master who wielded six individual blades. Dooku pointed out her ability to adapt in combat and her form were sloppy, and the numerous blades didn't make up for it. What part of Krell facing off against some Clones suggest he doesn't share exactly the same flaws and shortcomings?I'll save you the time, nothing he does, no accolade he has and no amount of theories you can provide would prove the above. It doesn't make him bad, it makes him unrankable.
I didn't acknowledge it because its a moot point. For one Dooku is xenophobic, arrogant, and in general regards anything that isn't Makashi with disdain; he is
biased.
Whereas the Order's then Battlemaster had nothing but praise for his abilities which were good enough to be recorded in the Jedi Archives.
More importantly however wielding multiple lightsabers is not at all equivalent to wielding a saberstaff. And indeed seeing as Skwelli had multiple appendages to accommodate, it should have been no less dangerous than Jar'Kai is for a normal humanoid.
Fact is though if had Krell's bladework been sloppy, he'd have chopped himself to pieces, not the clones. 👆
We don't see Jedi perform telekinesis of this magnitude because it goes against their code, hence it being a rarity in TCW. There are however superior telekinetic feats in the show, Windu's feats on Ryloth seem to be both much easier and much more impressive.
Your point? Goodness Windu > Krell. Who knew? 🙄
Three of those I compared Krell to were Sith, and my Jedi example involved two of the most powerful in the Order combining their powers, so I'm not seeing a counter-argument here at all.
As for the bare handed stuff, you must be forgetting Ventress doing exactly the same stuff to Clone Troopers she wasn't trying to kill on Coruscant, or her handling of the rebels during her time as a bounty hunter. It's hardly unprecedented, and if you're trying to show it as a force feat, evidently someone like Ventres with a much less able natural physique, is more impressive.
After she destroyed their weapons at close range. But oh yes, Ventress' hand-to-hand ability that left Anakin sprawled on the floor, and landed her a blow on Darth Maul are so very common... another comparison that doesn't diminish Krell at all.
Since we have no Jedi facing clones like this in the Clone Wars, how do you distinguish Krell's feat from fighting a much greater number of Battle Droids? They may be less skilled, but a greater number surely makes up for it. So not really an out of the ordinary showing.
Can you be more specific? Who exactly are you referring to, not Ima Gun Di I hope...
On the other hand consider how many Jedi were slaughtered by Order 66, and the clones didn't always have the element of surprise.
And yes, the blaster deflection shows skill, I don't deny that. It does not however show skill in relation to duelling another Lightsaber wielding opponent, much in the same way fighting Tuk'ata doesn't mean jack shit 😉
Of course, skill has no relation to duelling, how foolish of me to assume otherwise. 🙄