The Omni-King vs IG Thanos

The only being in creation who was > Thanos /w/ IG, was LT... Who, even now, is a fully multiversal(or omniversal, depending which comic's verbiage you opt to use) power. That said, it was still implied that LT would have been hard-pressed to defeat the IG outright -- their battle would have laid waste to creation, at the very least. Hell, they almost came off as peers. /shrug

We also saw an incomplete IG(it didn't even have the reality gem, ffs) casually manipulate the energies of the UN to its whim -- and those energies have been used on a multiversal scale. Same incomplete IG was >> 5 CCUs, and capable of merging/amalgamating entire universes. Etc.

Again, I simply believe the IG has a greater overall depth of power.

Yep. At best, Zeno is Franklin Richards level, who is as far beneath the IG as we are above an ameoba.

In other words, Superman wins! 😉

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Pretty sure Trunks and Whis both mention the former's, "world" being erased, which most likely refers to the Future timeline. After all, when Whis talked about how Zeno can erase the entire "world" instantly, he was referring to the entire multiverse.

It was also confirmed by herms98 on twitter that Trunks' whole timeline was deleted.

I personally find that to be one hell of a stretch. That whenever world is mentioned in regards to Zeno it means the entire Dragonball Multiverse. I could accept it being related to maybe the universe, still stretchy when we actually see there is something remaining after Zeno decide to use his powers.

Who is this Herms98?

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
Fair enough, though I was more referring to portrayal than literally being the same. For example: in one source, Galactus' fight with Scrier/Other was threatening the stability of the multiverse, in another, he's getting oneshotted by the merged celestial, slugging it out with Odin, doing battle with Mephisto in his realm, etc. The same Galactus, literally speaking, but inconsistent portrayals relative to the former. Same goes for the UN.

Zeno's energies are nothing like the UN, yeah. Not even sure if it was ki either. I tend to just refer to it as Zeno's divine light wiping clean the canvas of existence. 🙂

I find it important to note that Beerus, who's less than an atom compared to Zeno, can casually nullify universe-busting energy.

I'll just like to point out the the Mad Celestials have been confirmed as being equal in powerlevel to the 616 Celestials, so them merging and oneshotting Galactus I don't find farfetched, as for the scope. That varies on writer and what he wants to portray. But while Galactus might be portrayed in various situations, high and low, the Classic IG and the UN doesn't have, as far as I recall a single instance of a low showing. The UN isn't shown as being inconsistent though, the object, characters or whatever it targets gets nullified, erased from existance. All that seems to matter to the UN is the scope. Nullify a planet doesn't seem different then wiping out a universe where the UN is concerned.

I just called it as in the anime, some sort of erasing effect.

I'll respond when I can get on my chrome book. Glad you're here to spark some legitimate discussion. 🙂

Originally posted by Galan007
The only being in creation who was > Thanos /w/ IG, was LT... Who, even now, is a fully multiversal(or omniversal, depending which comic's verbiage you opt to use) power. That said, it was still implied that LT would have been hard-pressed to defeat the IG outright -- their battle would have laid waste to creation, at the very least. Hell, they almost came off as peers. /shrug

We also saw an incomplete IG(it didn't even have the reality gem, ffs) casually manipulate the energies of the UN to its whim -- and those energies have been used on a multiversal scale. Same incomplete IG was >> 5 CCUs, and capable of merging/amalgamating entire universes. Etc.

Again, I simply believe the IG has a greater overall depth of power.

But yet the same beings that you marked as planetary in durability killed LT. Zeno stomps.

Originally posted by XSUPREMEXSKILLZ
I'll respond when I can get on my chrome book. Glad you're here to spark some legitimate discussion. 🙂

He's a fine addition to Block1thanos, Thebadguy, Galan007, and of course, our most reasonable poster: cdtm.

But don't sell Carver short. What's the point of being right all the time, if there's not someone wrong to play against? 😉

Originally posted by carver9
But yet the same beings that you marked as planetary in durability killed LT. Zeno stomps.

...But that's neither here nor there, and I was just trying to be a little more fair to Zeno.

Back when LT confronted the classic IG, he existed in, and acted as the judge of, ALL multiverseS simultaneously:

This is important because there were INFINITE multiverseS(within the all-encompassing Omniverse) back then:

*And each multiverse contains INFINITE universeS.

That said, not even LT was sure if he even had enough power to defeat the IG outright. All he knew for certain is that a battle between them would destroy reality:

...Which in turn means the classic IG was ~ to an omniversal power. 🙂

Listen, I don't mind the opinion that Zeno wins -- I just want to know how. I have provided quite a bit of on-panel evidence to support my stance that the IG is superior(and can provide even more if need be.) Now it's your turn. 🙂

They pretty much played all their cards.

Zeno either:

1. Destroyed Trunks universe.

2. Destroyed all 12 universe's within Trunk's timeline.

It wasn't especially clear which, but I lean towards one universe, as Zeno to date only destroyed 2 universes. Not all of creation.

^nah, there's also the 6 universes he destroyed by getting slightly PO'd.

Don't worry, good sir, I will respond tonight. 🙂

Unless there are still feats out there which haven't been mentioned, I'm not really sure how a legit argument can be made for Zeno..? 😕

As mentioned above: by all implications the classic IG was ~ LT, who was an omniversal power at the time:

The IG was even stated to be FAR superior to 30 CCUs
http://i.imgur.com/X3jkfdq.jpg
*Mind you, ONE CCU has preformed multi-universal feats in the past.

Even an INcomplete IG was still >> 5 CCUs on panel, capable of casually manipulating the multiversal energies of the UN to its whim, merging entire universes/timelines with a snap, etc.

Moreover, an inadvertent/casual release of energy from Thanos /w/ IG (dubbed "the actuality ripple"😉 spread across the entire Marvel continuum, until it eventually transcended creation all together, and reached the Beyond Realm:
http://i.imgur.com/YRYEfqy.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/lWC0oyh.jpg

And just so everyone is aware, the Beyond Realm resides entirely outside the prime multiverse/omniverse:
http://i.imgur.com/fAtNgGg.jpg
*That's how we can be sure the actuality ripple transcended the whole of creation.

Heck, even the heavily watered-down, Hickman-era IGs are still capable of effortlessly destroying universes:

And effortlessly creating them ex nihilo:

Aside from the scope/scale of its power, the IG also allowed for absolute mastery over every facet of creation -- that's why its wielders were repeatedly referred to as "God" and such:

*One example of many.

Like I keep saying: the IG's depth of power just seems to be far superior. Zeno's ability to destroy a few-dozen universes doesn't mean a whole lot by comparison. But again, that is just my opinion. I am totally open for a cohesive argument for Zeno, though.

Before I respond to everything on this page: was Marvel an Omniverse containing infinite multiverses when PR Beyonder was around? If so, he's a lot more powerful than I thought...

The word/term was occasionally thrown around back then, but it certainly wasn't well-defined until years later.

Fair enough.

I realize I'm fighting an uphill battle here, but I'll muster up something of substance in Zeno's defense. 🙂

Wasn't the infinity gauntlet useless outside of the Marvel "Omniverse"? As stated by Darkseid in the crossover? Or was that not canon?

^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

Fantastic Four kind of canonized the concept, assuming alternate universe IG's work the same way.

But yeah, defeats the purpose of the thread. It's like arguing Flash can't access the speed force.

Originally posted by Galan007
^ That crossover is non-canon.

Though I'm not sure why it matters..? I'm pretty sure the intent is to have a fully functional Gauntlet here, no matter where the battle takes place.

My point is that the IG is clearly not multiversal, or omniversal, if it only operates in one universe.

However, it's not really fair for me to make any argument here. I personally don't really know much about the IG war arc in Marvel, so I don't want to come off as biased here.

Anyway, from what you're posting Galan, I would definitely give the fight to Thanos at this point. The Omni-King is definitely coming up though. He's already at multiversal level, and that's casual for him. We'll just have to wait and see how powerful he truly is, if he even has any limits.

Doom recently beat an IG user with ease and this is when it was in possession of one of the most smartest beings in MU. Giving this to Zeno.

Zeno isn't Doom. Doom is far, far more powerful than universe/multiverse buster level.