Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
So what counts as a strong mind? Is just bring a main character, because thats stupid. Thor falls for illusions, can't come with a good plan, and has gone down to mind tricks before. His plot armour ain't that thick.
Falling for a master illusionist's illusions does not a weak mind make. Seeing that he doesn't have Jedi precog.
And his "plan" worked so I don't know what the heck you're talking about with "can't come up with a good plan".
I'm going to assume that experience, battle hardiness and worthiness make good indicators of one's "strength of mind".
And as far as Jedi Mind Tricks are concerned, Vader couldn't even JMT the location of the Death Star plans out of some random rebel scrub. So not looking too good for his JMT.
One lightning strike and Vader is screwed. And for people who claim Thor is too slow and needs to charge up first, Thor fires a lightning blast at Ultron by simply thrusting his hammer forward, at 2:44:
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
Size matters not - he deflected a blast from a f*cking Rebel tank in new comics.
Well, that's just getting silly at this point. Which raises the question, what all are we considering canon for this fight? Films? Pres-suit feats (where applicable)? Clone Wars? Rebels? Comics related to the films?
Originally posted by StiltmanFTW
There's a decent chance that his lightsaber can deflect/absorb it.Size matters not - he deflected a blast from a f*cking Rebel tank in new comics.
Blasters aren't lightning tho.
He catches blaster bolts with his bare hands from Solo with zero effect. One hit would have killed Luke.
But a few seconds indirect exposure from Sid's lightning shut down his light support almost immediately. Something Luke survived even with prolonged direct exposure.
I know their deflection is far more effective via the lightsaber, but the same level of vulnerability would apply wouldn't it? The way Tutaminis works.
Ok, I am going to side with the majority and say Thor wins.
Now, don't get me wrong, Vader is a truly good opponent who has a decent amount of advantages, including more versatile powers and weapons.
However, Thor's powerset is pretty much tailor made to wreck Vader's shit post Mustafar. The suit is not capable of deflecting or absorbing the lightning Thor will be throwing into him. Thor is also quite capable of outpacing Vader's sedated fighting style, even if the Sith Lord can predict high speed movement in advance, Vader's cyber body couldn't keep up that level of speed for long, nor can it withstand more than a few direct blows from Mjolnir.
And for those who wish to try and say mind trick will work, consider this. Nibedicus called it right, because knowledge is only one part of a strong mind, what matters more than knowledge? Wisdom, and a strong sense of willpower. Thor's willpower is what renders him incredibly difficult for a force powered mind trick to work. Loki's illusions are not psionic in nature like the force is, they are actual optical and physical illusions, it's a completely different kind of illusion from force suggestion or mind trick.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
One lightning strike and Vader is screwed. And for people who claim Thor is too slow and needs to charge up first, Thor fires a lightning blast at Ultron by simply thrusting his hammer forward, at 2:44:
Lol @ anyone who thought he couldn't just blast on the spot.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
Blasters aren't lightning tho.He catches blaster bolts with his bare hands from Solo with zero effect. One hit would have killed Luke.
But a few seconds indirect exposure from Sid's lightning shut down his light support almost immediately. Something Luke survived even with prolonged direct exposure.
I know their deflection is far more effective via the lightsaber, but the same level of vulnerability would apply wouldn't it? The way Tutaminis works.
The lightning didn't kill vader. His life support shutting down did. Obi wan was more than capable at blocking duku's lightning with a saber and he trained vader.
Originally posted by NotAllThatEvil
The lightning didn't kill vader. His life support shutting down did. Obi wan was more than capable at blocking duku's lightning with a saber and he trained vader.
Yes, I did say it shut down his life support (although I appear to have misspelled it into "light" for some reason).
Obi Wan is not Vader. And Dooku's (or Sidious' for that matter) lightning isn't even in the same neighborhood as Thor's. Feat-to-Feat, Thor's lightning would sh*t on theirs.
Basically Vader has no post-suit lightning absorption "feats", has shown a vulnerability to lightning (due to the electronics on his life support) and Thor's lightning is greater than Sid's or Dooku's (feat-to-feat).
Although, I will stress that he won't even need his lightning. A single hammer throw = game over.
Originally posted by TheVaultDweller
Well, that's just getting silly at this point. Which raises the question, what all are we considering canon for this fight? Films? Pres-suit feats (where applicable)? Clone Wars? Rebels? Comics related to the films?
Also, would like to add, as per mod ruling (as I was the one who specifically requested for said ruling, I remember it vividly), only movie and canon-to-movie TV series has been allowed in these forums. Comics and books are not.
Originally posted by Darth Thor
Yeah Canon Vader is a completely different animal to "just" Movie and Rebels Vader. That said, given the comics and novels are Canon, we could see similar feats happen in the movies/animation at some point.
And if/when said "feats" do occur, wencan come back here and bring them up.
Til then...
Let's say Vader can block Thor's lightning, blah blah blah (other shit that isn't happening).
No way he dodges/tanks a Mjolnir throw. And his TK can't stop it in flight. Nor does he survive a shockwave slam. Thor has too many options, all of which would take out Vader pretty easy. While Thor won't have that problem.
Originally posted by Nibedicus
And if Thor throws his hammer,
He isn't going to get to throw his hammer.
Vader's telekinesis is much quicker on the draw than any of Thor's abilities - which means that Thor is getting pinned to the floor and/or tripped, and then decapitated pretty quickly.
The idea that he couldn't get pinned by telekinesis is silly - for one thing, him being physically tough does not allow him to immediately create a reaction force to some invisible grip that could move him in any direction - he isn't magically pinning himself against all possible motion. For another, Thor has noticeably been moved by things less formidable than Vader's telekinesis, like his inability to hold up that free-falling prison. But Vader doesn't need to affect him indefinitely - he just needs to do so enough to get in a strike.
This is a question of who gets the kill, not who has more raw power or who gets a fancier strike in.
(Of course, it goes without saying that full-Canon or Legends Vader would absolutely destroy him)