Darth Vader and Galen Marek vs. Vitiate

Originally posted by Sinious
Ah, thanks. This has already been addressed though. "Again" is the key word. Prior experience is the most important factor in defending against Vitiate's TP, and Valkorion concedes to HoT's self-praise all the time.

This notion that you need special knowledge or experience to counter his TP, despite their being nothing observably special about it, doesn't really hold water tbh.

Originally posted by ILS
There's always a little bit of truth in legends.

Spoiler:
unless you use alternating capitals... then you're dead wrong, every f*ckin' time.

Originally posted by Petrus
No, I never said it's a no-limits ability, nor do I believe that. I'm just saying things as they are: he mind-rapes everyone he faces for the first time, if he wants to. At least, all he's faced so far.

Of course, if he was to face someone like Sidious, the odds of Vit mind-raping him are slim to none.

Might want to rephrase that, because you've got one heck of a contradiction going on here.

👆

Originally posted by Aurbere
Might want to rephrase that, because you've got one heck of a contradiction going on here.

It's no contradiction. I'm just stating facts. Everyone Vit faced for the first time, he mind-dominated. That does not mean his ability knows no limits, it just means his TP skillzzz are quite formidable and/or the opponents he faced had no defense against it.

Originally posted by Emperordmb
So we just assume it's a no limits ability?

Kind of like you do with Zannah amirite?

Originally posted by carthage
Kind of like you do with Zannah amirite?

DEMONZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ

I'm pretty sure there is a very clear limit in terms of Zannah's mental attacks and his name is Darth Bane.

Tbh Emp that's just the cold hard truth.

“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.” - Revan.

Originally posted by Beniboybling
Yet he highlights strength, as opposed to experience as the reason why Valkorion would fail. mmm

This notion that you need special knowledge or experience to counter his TP, despite their being nothing observably special about it, doesn't really hold water tbh.

But you have absolutely no proof that prior experience has nothing to do with it. Sure, the Outlander clearly got stronger in this area as that is being stressed in the convo, but that doesn't mean that it is the sole factor. The novel stresses the importance of having prior knowledge of Vitiate's TP:
“This time I know his tricks and tactics,” Revan assured them. “I can shield my mind from being dominated by his will, and I can show you how to do the same.”
Maybe, the same increase of strength wouldn't be big enough for him to defend without his experience, and that they didn't mention it or like I said before, maybe Valkorion is just agreeing with HoTlander. I mean, Outlander got stronger, but it's not like Vitiate stayed the same. The fact that you think that little interchange can override everything else is lolsworthy and the same logic could be used to lowball pretty much everyone.

To be fair Sinious Valkorian is stronger then he was as Vitiate just as HoT is stronger as the Outlander.

Also we know for a fact your ability to resist TP is tied directly to your power in the force ( along with a few other factors like strength of will ) as shown in the Thrawn Trilogy with C'baoth.

I will say that it seems like Vitiate's TP isn't necessarily the kind that is just an overwhelming assault but a poking prodding kind that subtly spreads through your mind as the quote we both provided mentions Vitiate's tricks and tactics in regards to his telepathy.

That is what I said in my post. 😬

My point: Every example of successful resistance to his TP includes factors that give an advantage to his opposition, and those advantages won't be there for Galen or Vader.

Regardless if we're going by the OP I think the team should take it. Do you see any problem with that Sin?

@Sinious

Cool but for a moment lets frame what your saying with some contexts i.e. Vitiate being able to TP Galen Marek and Vader. Who it goes without saying > everyone in the TOR Jedi Order. So that particular point is rather moot.

And I don't recall saying that prior experience had nothing to do with it, evidently it helps, as you would expect. What I said is that there is no proof it is necessary, someone sufficiently strong-willed should be able to resist Vitiate without prior experience/without developing a special technique.

And your ultimately assuming that the Outlander benefited from his prior experience with Vitiate as Revan did, when there is no solid proof of that, nor any implication of it. Regardless any such advantage would surely have been mitigated by Valkorion's own significant growth in power. 👆

Originally posted by Sinious
That is what I said in my post. 😬

My point: Every example of successful resistance to his TP includes factors that give an advantage to his opposition, and those advantages won't be there for Galen or Vader.

Well tbf Galen does seem to have some resistance to mental attacks as shown when he prepares defenses again a potential mental assault by Rahm Kota and when he experienced the illusions on Kashyyyk. Vader himself has experience dealing with this sort of thing as well via Jax Pavan and the Muur Talisman.

I'd say that both Vader and Galen are more powerful then even the greatest opponents Vitiate has TP'ed and that the Sidious that TP'ed Vader ( not taking into account that if Vader tried to resist Sidious would likely have seen it as a sign of rebellion ) is greater then Vitiate.

The Hero of Tython did have Scourge after Act II, who as you'll recall was taught Vitiates tricks by Revan. Scourge would no doubt help the Hero in preparing to face Vitiate's telepathy.

Also recall that the Hero has other beastly TP feats like resisting Sel Makor and mind-****ing Tol Braga. Sinious is on point that they're a immensely strong in that area.

Also note that Vitiate implies the HoTlander has a stronger will than Revan, kek.

^ 👆

Originally posted by Syndicate
Regardless if we're going by the OP I think the team should take it. Do you see any problem with that Sin?