Meetra Surik vs. Ahsoka Tano (Rebels)

Originally posted by Beniboybling
How did you reach that conclusion?

Well at first we have this observation:

"You have almost completely restored your connection to the Force, but there are hollow places, places that echo within you still."
- Zez-Kai Ell, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

So the Exile as of the Jedi Enclave meeting was considered to still be restoring her connection to the Force, Darth Traya then intervenes and butchers all 3(4) of them through complete Force domination.

Then we have this statement:

Although Traya was more powerful, the Exile managed to defeat her in combat.
- The Complete Star Wars Encyclopedia

So yes Traya as of their battle over a geyser of dark side energy, was more powerful. It must be observed that Traya at her most powerful and with a ton of prep time, was incapable of overwhelming Meetra with the Force, otherwise she would have won this contest.

Evidence for this can be analysed here:

Traya uses vast telekinetic powers to wield a trio of lightsabers against her.
- Knights of the Old Republic Campaign Guide

Force Wave can stun Kreia's floating lightsabers.
- Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords: Prima Official Game Guide

So Traya's vast display of telekinetic grip can be, at least temporarily, rendered inert. A very impressive display of Meetra's telekinesis given what Traya herself has done:

Such exceedingly powerful displays of telekinetic domination, yet the Exile was evidently able to defeat the Sith regardless.

This is what is stated by the Sith Lord:

"I do not see as she does, but I know that in time, you will come to surpass her power."
- Darth Sion, Knights of the Old Republic II: The Sith Lords

This has quite some merit, as Meetra Surik defeats Darth Traya years before her prime:

Meanwhile, the Exile trained new Jedi recruits, forming a council of her companions who achieved mastery and welcoming others who came out of hiding. After years of slow but steady growth, the reborn Jedi Order made a triumphant return to its long-abandoned temple on Coruscant. But the Jedi Exile could not forget Darth Traya’s final warning, suggesting that evil remained in the Unknown Regions. With the Jedi Order flourishing, the Exile left the known galaxy to follow her former commander Revan into darkness.
- The Old Republic Galactic History 83: The Republic Rebuilds

So over-all we see that the Jedi Exile Meetra Surik was able to hold her own against Traya's powers in a massive geyser of dark side energy and defeat the Triumvirate leader, then spends the next years growing and reviving the Jedi Order under her leadership. Time in which Darth Sion states Meetra Surik will surpass Darth Traya.

I'll deal with the rest later.

That img on Malachor V never happens anywhere in-game, if you're using cut content, thats great, but its non-canon.

Yeah, that's the worst thing about debating when KOTOR II is involved. Trying to discern actual content from cut content debaters are trying to peddle as legit.

But then...the cut content was suppose to be in the game? Honestly, I'm confused when it comes to this thing, people say one thing, then say another...

It's Obsidian's originally intended content for the game, stop treating it like something to handwave when it's so obviously within Traya's power.

Idgaf, if it's cut content, label it as such then put forward the argument for it being legit.

All cut content wasn't originally supposed to be in the game.

Also, lol@years before her prime. Revan is pretty much right after KotOR II.

Welcome to Nova's Respect Thread, read the thing and stop giving me grief. I didn't even include anything bar adding in Lonna Vash, something accepted by anybody with a basic understanding of Kotor II, she dominates the council with TK whilst monologuing and then drains them.

If you've got anything legit to actually contribute then feel free but getting butthurt about cut content isn't helping anybody.

No one but Beni is in a debate with you, and Nova doesn't determine what content is and isn't valid anymore than you, or anyone else. Either way, I've played the game, thanks.

Meanwhile, the Exile trained new Jedi recruits, forming a council of her companions who achieved mastery and welcoming others who came out of hiding. After years of slow but steady growth, the reborn Jedi Order made a triumphant return to its long-abandoned temple on Coruscant. But the Jedi Exile could not forget Darth Traya’s final warning, suggesting that evil remained in the Unknown Regions. With the Jedi Order flourishing, the Exile left the known galaxy to follow her former commander Revan into darkness.
-_The Old Republic Galactic History 83: The Republic Rebuilds

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
No one but Beni is in a debate with you, and Nova doesn't determine what content is and isn't valid anymore than you, or anyone else. Either way, I've played the game, thanks.

So you were wrong, cut content absolutely was meant to be in the game, a basic read of the Prima Game Guide can tell you that much.

Originally posted by AncientPower
It's Obsidian's originally intended content for the game, stop treating it like something to handwave when it's so obviously within Traya's power.

It doesn't matter if it was ORIGINALLY intended to be in the game, it WASN'T in the game.

Therefore it doesn't count.

Therefore it's non-canon.

KOTOR 3 was originally supposed to BE a game, I'm sure they have unused assets from the game, but if someone tried making a game off that, would it be canon? No.

I guess that "Jungle Book" world in Kingdom Hearts is canon to the story of KH.

Ideas, even fully developed ideas, are still ideas, its cut content for a reason, and therefore can't be passed off as law.

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
All cut content wasn't originally supposed to be in the game.

Also, lol@years before her prime. Revan is pretty much right after KotOR II.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So you were wrong, cut content absolutely was meant to be in the game.

Then why wasn't it?

I highly doubt people were clamoring for the next release of KOTOR, as it wasn't even that popular when it came out.

And I doubt Lucas or Obsidian were rushing to get it out either.

You're welcome to have an opinion, but I'll stick with the script, Prima Game Guide, and the fact Obsidian would've patched everything we're talking about into the game but LucasArts wouldn't lift a finger. The only reason they cut it out is because LucasArts rushed the game from summer back to the xmas season for a quick dollar.

If you don't like my argument, feel free to not participate.

Originally posted by Jmanghan
Then why wasn't it?

I highly doubt people were clamoring for the next release of KOTOR, as it wasn't even that popular when it came out.

And I doubt Lucas or Obsidian were rushing to get it out either.

You just proved you have absolutely no clue about anything we're discussing, concession accepted.

Originally posted by AncientPower
You just proved you have absolutely no clue about anything we're discussing, concession accepted.

You think it showed be allowed to be used as evidence, everyone else disagrees, as they should.

Furthermore, since when does the Prima Game Guide decide what's canon in the KOTOR games?

It covers everything from the Fallout Games to the Dark Souls series.

Originally posted by AncientPower
So you were wrong, cut content absolutely was meant to be in the game, a basic read of the Prima Game Guide can tell you that much.

Here's the thing, if you're going to use cut content, label it as such and then people can debate whether or not it's valid from there.

posting cut content without labeling it as such prevents people who don't accept it as valid evidence from arguing that point of view.