Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
As far as BM, I don't think he has been tested directly, but you have to assume that as a Superman level flying brick, he can't easily be mind controlled.
So are you assuming he's got telepathic resistance solely because he's Superman-lite or has he actually done anything in that regard?
Originally posted by abhilegend
If only you could read.If only Hal was attacking his eyes.
The league weren't shown for at least ten pages more. So I'd doubt they were letting him do anything.
Uh, everyone?
By your standards, Superman was able to beat everyone together there.
If only you didn't take scans out of context and think your proving a point, am I suppose to be suprsised that Superman can make Green Arrow and Batman cover themselves with a ground smash? Cause Hawkman and Wonder Woman look like their already air Bourne and the only other notable character Martian Manhunter looks like he's occupied in his own fight or possibly falling because the ground beneath him was destroyed whereas. Hal was Tilting the direction the force was being sent at him suggesting he was falling because of the smash. Think of this way Superman Breaks the ground so Martian Manhunter falls because there's nothing keeping him up. Whereas what Wonder Woman did to Hal is the equivalent of strong gust knocking someone on their ass. Force being generated > so I fall >.
You mean in the same book where Hal took precedence and attacked Darkseid first? By your logic they were kod then to despite seeing them in the next panel, going off what we actually see in the actual comics there's actual in scan proof to show Diana is above Hal I don't know why your fighting that so much when others here have said he looks like he's getting beat up which was the case. I'm pretty sure the next pages take place on Apokolips reason why they aren't shown how is that a KO.
https://comicnewbies.com/2015/06/01/green-lantern-vs-darkseid-justice-league/
Given the smashes it looks like Aquaman and Wonder Woman retained their position in the first smash.
You suggested Hal was more impressive against Darkseid eyes or not that statement about Hal was untrue he did nothing against Darksied wheras Aquaman and Wonder Woman actually did. Aquaman even attacking Darkseid in more places then the eyes and in a combined Assualt Wonder Woman pulling Darkseid back in a tilt.
http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11121/111219076/5001075-3532548764-33606.jpg
http://www.nerdist.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Wonder-Woman-VS-Darkseid.jpg
https://comicnewbies.files.wordpress.com/2015/06/wonder-woman-and-aquaman-blinds-darkseid-11.jpg
Originally posted by abhilegend
And what showings would that be which show he is weaker than before? He still killed Krona, he still became Parallax and shit like that.
As cute as that is, Death of Superman and the destruction of Coast City still happened as shown in GL 51.Blackest Night still happened. So did War of Green Lanterns.
Just because a few characters didn't die or weren't included doesn't means anything in terms of power level.
Where am I saying none of those things happened at? I'm suggesting they probably didn't happen under the same circumstances look at Renegade Hal's talk with Parralax Hal for example and Renegade Hal being suprsised hed go this far.
I don't get how your suggesting I'm having difficulty reading yet missing the fact that I never stated none of theses events didn't happen, all I'm saying is they obviously didn't happen in the same regard.
Not sure this is quite so uneven as people think.
Let's imagine some matchups:
Superman vs. Hulk---both have dynamic power levels to some degree, and this is hard to peg. WWH is a beast, guaranteed. Being all-out doesn't guarantee that Superman will be full OWAW level, but he'll still be beastly too. This fight is too close to call.
Thor vs. Orion--also a very even matchup IMO. Perhaps Thor wins in the end, maybe. But it's real close. Could go either way.
Wonder Woman vs. Blue Marvel or Silver Surfer--this is Goddess of War Diana with her bracers off, ready to fight to the death. She's at least a match for either of these two. BM is on a bit of a roll these days, so I might call them too close to call. I actually think WW would beat Thor, or Orion, in these circumstances. I'd give her the edge on the average Surfer portrayal, too.
Martian Manhunter vs. BM or Surfer. Maybe MM is the weak link. But maybe not. Is he really so underpowered that he isn't elite top tier anymore? He may lose vs Surfer or BM, but I think it's a close fight.
Who should I trade MM out for on DC that would even up this fight more? Shazam? Hal Jordan?
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
If only you didn't take scans out of context and think your proving a point, am I suppose to be suprsised that Superman can make Green Arrow and Batman cover themselves with a ground smash?
Haha, seriously?
This is just Batman and Green Arrow covering their eyes?
****ing hell, you are like a redux version of carver as you see what only you want to see.
Cause Hawkman and Wonder Woman look like their already air Bourne and the only other notable character Martian Manhunter looks like he's occupied in his own fight or possibly falling because the ground beneath him was destroyed whereas.
That's a lot of excuses. Here, let me help you.
Everyone was tossed aside and stopped fighting.
Hal was Tilting the direction the force was being sent at him suggesting he was falling because of the smash.
Yes, that's so cool. Aside from the fact that he wasn't even bloodied by any of the attacks save the sword attack. What does all of this mean anyway? How is this supposed to mean Hal is suddenly weaker than before?
Think of this way Superman Breaks the ground so Martian Manhunter falls because there's nothing keeping him up.
Or the shockwave tossed him aside. There is nothing to suggest he was falling because of ground breaking.
Whereas what Wonder Woman did to Hal is the equivalent of strong gust knocking someone on their ass. Force being generated > so I fall >.
So it works against Hal but not to everyone else. Comicvine logic at its finest.
You mean in the same book where Hal took precedence and attacked Darkseid first? By your logic they were kod then to despite seeing them in the next panel, going off what we actually see in the actual comics there's actual in scan proof to show Diana is above Hal I don't know why your fighting that so much when others here have said he looks like he's getting beat up which was the case.
That's a lot of whining. Diana isn't above hal. Even in Darkseid War, John had to save Diana from Superman's solar flare.
While Hal stopped the energy attack on his own.
I'm pretty sure the next pages take place on Apokolips reason why they aren't shown how is that a KO.
Really?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KHCl-851zeA/UwncLfeOlOI/AAAAAAAAnXo/2GbInlTpZrM/s1600/p5_7.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wQwmkCKWqc/UwncL8wwvbI/AAAAAAAAnXs/KGi4OVsJhUk/s1600/p5_8.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1JuAV_LCno/UwncL0sAuwI/AAAAAAAAnXw/QZq_x8FaQs4/s1600/p5_9.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7ztoDPxMo9E/UwncD8fvgcI/AAAAAAAAnVg/tSmyGsy-HJo/s1600/p5_10.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R02nsUBv08o/UwncEKPHFeI/AAAAAAAAnVs/RTpMBn7xJVk/s1600/p5_11.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R02nsUBv08o/UwncEKPHFeI/AAAAAAAAnVs/RTpMBn7xJVk/s1600/p5_11.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_iXa5vUpNXg/UwncEiqGpdI/AAAAAAAAnV0/Gg0mnBcRwSs/s1600/p5_12.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R59KjstTQiE/UwncFhYSq8I/AAAAAAAAnWI/n24966swaXQ/s1600/p5_13.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sws0lYMouqY/UwncFXKnjLI/AAAAAAAAnWA/6W1129ThLvs/s1600/p5_14.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7dMNLd6gjIM/UwncFg9uf4I/AAAAAAAAnWE/-Z48zl0Cf6I/s1600/p5_15.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/---RzEZ9GpK8/UwncHqD_gBI/AAAAAAAAnWk/M4EXzcdLQDQ/s1600/p5_16.jpg
The entire sequence. Everyone else is digging out of the rubble at the last page.
You suggested Hal was more impressive against Darkseid eyes or not that statement about Hal was untrue he did nothing against Darksied wheras Aquaman and Wonder Woman actually did. Aquaman even attacking Darkseid in more places then the eyes and in a combined Assualt Wonder Woman pulling Darkseid back in a tilt.
Haha, seriously?
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Where am I saying none of those things happened at? I'm suggesting they probably didn't happen under the same circumstances look at Renegade Hal's talk with Parralax Hal for example and Renegade Hal being suprsised hed go this far.I don't get how your suggesting I'm having difficulty reading yet missing the fact that I never stated none of theses events didn't happen, all I'm saying is they obviously didn't happen in the same regard.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Haha, seriously?This is just Batman and Green Arrow covering their eyes?
****ing hell, you are like a redux version of carver as you see what only you want to see.
That's a lot of excuses. Here, let me help you.
Everyone was tossed aside and stopped fighting.
Yes, that's so cool. Aside from the fact that he wasn't even bloodied by any of the attacks save the sword attack. What does all of this mean anyway? How is this supposed to mean Hal is suddenly weaker than before?
Or the shockwave tossed him aside. There is nothing to suggest he was falling because of ground breaking.
So it works against Hal but not to everyone else. Comicvine logic at its finest.
That's a lot of whining. Diana isn't above hal. Even in Darkseid War, John had to save Diana from Superman's solar flare.
While Hal stopped the energy attack on his own.
Really?
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-KHCl-851zeA/UwncLfeOlOI/AAAAAAAAnXo/2GbInlTpZrM/s1600/p5_7.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_wQwmkCKWqc/UwncL8wwvbI/AAAAAAAAnXs/KGi4OVsJhUk/s1600/p5_8.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-Y1JuAV_LCno/UwncL0sAuwI/AAAAAAAAnXw/QZq_x8FaQs4/s1600/p5_9.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-7ztoDPxMo9E/UwncD8fvgcI/AAAAAAAAnVg/tSmyGsy-HJo/s1600/p5_10.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R02nsUBv08o/UwncEKPHFeI/AAAAAAAAnVs/RTpMBn7xJVk/s1600/p5_11.jpg
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-R02nsUBv08o/UwncEKPHFeI/AAAAAAAAnVs/RTpMBn7xJVk/s1600/p5_11.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-_iXa5vUpNXg/UwncEiqGpdI/AAAAAAAAnV0/Gg0mnBcRwSs/s1600/p5_12.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-R59KjstTQiE/UwncFhYSq8I/AAAAAAAAnWI/n24966swaXQ/s1600/p5_13.jpg
http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Sws0lYMouqY/UwncFXKnjLI/AAAAAAAAnWA/6W1129ThLvs/s1600/p5_14.jpg
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-7dMNLd6gjIM/UwncFg9uf4I/AAAAAAAAnWE/-Z48zl0Cf6I/s1600/p5_15.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/---RzEZ9GpK8/UwncHqD_gBI/AAAAAAAAnWk/M4EXzcdLQDQ/s1600/p5_16.jpgThe entire sequence. Everyone else is digging out of the rubble at the last page.
Haha, seriously?
There's the fact he's not going the same direction of the shockwave he seems to be seeping downwards.
In regards to the Solar Flare
1.) that's John not Hal
2.) It could be a unneeded save
3.) Maybe Lanterns have better durability to Energy based attacks
Also they were fighting over Superman did you read Trinity War? The reason they stopped fighting in that scenario is because the person they were fighting to either protect or lock up, made the decision themselves.
Based off your Darkseid vs Hal logic, Aquaman apparently KOd Superman in Throne of Atlantis then? Given Superman was gone for 6 pages and on a worse note actually showed he was unaware of what happened which is something noone did in origins..
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Not sure this is quite so uneven as people think.Let's imagine some matchups:
Superman vs. Hulk---both have dynamic power levels to some degree, and this is hard to peg. WWH is a beast, guaranteed. Being all-out doesn't guarantee that Superman will be full OWAW level, but he'll still be beastly too. This fight is too close to call.
Thor vs. Orion--also a very even matchup IMO. Perhaps Thor wins in the end, maybe. But it's real close. Could go either way.
Wonder Woman vs. Blue Marvel or Silver Surfer--this is Goddess of War Diana with her bracers off, ready to fight to the death. She's at least a match for either of these two. BM is on a bit of a roll these days, so I might call them too close to call. I actually think WW would beat Thor, or Orion, in these circumstances. I'd give her the edge on the average Surfer portrayal, too.
Martian Manhunter vs. BM or Surfer. Maybe MM is the weak link. But maybe not. Is he really so underpowered that he isn't elite top tier anymore? He may lose vs Surfer or BM, but I think it's a close fight.
Who should I trade MM out for on DC that would even up this fight more? Shazam? Hal Jordan?
Good post. Wonder Woman is the trump card tbh. DCNU Orion sucks, Martian Manhunter sucks.
I generally refuse to look at Injustice Gods for any relevant info. on how characters stand as I find the series to be highly contradictory (even with itself) when it comes to power levels. Writers seem to be straight up writing characters at whatever level is convenient for the issue at hand, regardless of how they were portrayed even in the same series a few issues earlier.
Originally posted by carver9
Good post. Wonder Woman is the trump card tbh. DCNU Orion sucks, Martian Manhunter sucks.
To be fair, it's getting hard to distinguish pre- and post- Flashpoint versions of some characters and their rankings. With Rebirth, it's all starting to blend together.
I think WW here would lose to WWH or even a reasonably powerful All-Out Superman portrayal. So she isn't the Trump in that way. But given how dynamic Hulk and Superman can be, their fights are impossible to call. And so at best we maybe consider them a wash. That does leave this Wonder Woman as the Trump card among the more quantifiable and more easily predictable combatants.
Given that pre- and post-FP versions of characters are now bleeding into one another, is MM really so soft?
Originally posted by abhilegend
So why would the feats in those would differ?
Why would the feats in events that probably didn't take place in the same way differ?
1.) Missing characters
2.) Not all characters are suggested to have been apart the event take it as 1 if you want.
3.) Goes alongside 1 because not all characters are connected to events they previously were we don't know how they took place, yes they're suggested to have taken place but we don't know what actually happened other than the conclusion.
4.) We don't know exactly how it all fits in with the timeline, did Blackest Night in the Nu52 happen before JL origins or after, it obviously took place before The original 5 year time skip given Hal leaving Earth.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Your suggesting I see what I want to see and then you make a silly statement like "he wasn't bloodied by anything save the sword" which suggest you don't pay attention to scans given Diana giving him a backhand also bloodied him...
Yes, a surprise attack bloodied him while he was not expecting her to attack.
How silly of me to ignore that.
You see they hypocrisy here, it's ironic cause one moment you'll be talking about Diana not being on Superman's level and then when it suits your purpose she becomes a Superman level being.
Superman has a dynamic factor to his powers. He can go from struggling against a foe to tearing him in half in the next moment.
But yes, Diana is a Superman level being nowadays on average.
There's the fact he's not going the same direction of the shockwave he seems to be seeping downwards.
Art can be seen by different angles. The main point from that is that Superman's ground attack scattered everyone else.
In regards to the Solar Flare1.) that's John not Hal
I already said that.
2.) It could be a unneeded save
Haha, seriously?
3.) Maybe Lanterns have better durability to Energy based attacks
That's so cute.
Also they were fighting over Superman did you read Trinity War? The reason they stopped fighting in that scenario is because the person they were fighting to either protect or lock up, made the decision themselves.
After scattering everyone else. They were too busy fighting each other to listen to him.
Originally posted by Pillow Biter
Not sure this is quite so uneven as people think.Let's imagine some matchups:
Superman vs. Hulk---both have dynamic power levels to some degree, and this is hard to peg. WWH is a beast, guaranteed. Being all-out doesn't guarantee that Superman will be full OWAW level, but he'll still be beastly too. This fight is too close to call.
Thor vs. Orion--also a very even matchup IMO. Perhaps Thor wins in the end, maybe. But it's real close. Could go either way.
Wonder Woman vs. Blue Marvel or Silver Surfer--this is Goddess of War Diana with her bracers off, ready to fight to the death. She's at least a match for either of these two. BM is on a bit of a roll these days, so I might call them too close to call. I actually think WW would beat Thor, or Orion, in these circumstances. I'd give her the edge on the average Surfer portrayal, too.
Martian Manhunter vs. BM or Surfer. Maybe MM is the weak link. But maybe not. Is he really so underpowered that he isn't elite top tier anymore? He may lose vs Surfer or BM, but I think it's a close fight.
Who should I trade MM out for on DC that would even up this fight more? Shazam? Hal Jordan?
Unless Shazam is GOG or Hal is Renegade there not doing more then J'onn who honestly at this moment looks like he can TP Blue Marvel. Some understand how he's the weakling considering strength wise he probably has the second best strength feat in the Nu52, his telepathy took down/affected people/person with planetary tp defense, and he has alot of versatility to boot,
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Why would the feats in events that probably didn't take place in the same way differ?1.) Missing characters
That doesn't affects the Lanterns' feats.
2.) Not all characters are suggested to have been apart the event take it as 1 if you want.
Lanterns were. That's what matters.
3.) Goes alongside 1 because not all characters are connected to events they previously were we don't know how they took place, yes they're suggested to have taken place but we don't know what actually happened other than the conclusion.
That's so cute. They are not suggested. The events happened the very same way they did previously. Just a few background characters were not there.
4.) We don't know exactly how it all fits in with the timeline, did Blackest Night in the Nu52 happen before JL origins or after, it obviously took place before The original 5 year time skip given Hal leaving Earth.
So? What does that mean about power levels?
Originally posted by abhilegend
Yes, a surprise attack bloodied him while he was not expecting her to attack.How silly of me to ignore that.
Superman has a dynamic factor to his powers. He can go from struggling against a foe to tearing him in half in the next moment.
But yes, Diana is a Superman level being nowadays on average.
Art can be seen by different angles. The main point from that is that Superman's ground attack scattered everyone else.
I already said that.
Haha, seriously?
That's so cute.
After scattering everyone else. They were too busy fighting each other to listen to him.
I'm sure breaking the ground under someone's feet will get their attention or yelling but view it as you will.
Given that Martian Manhunter isn't Tilting over yet is seeping down I'd call that questionable but again view that as you will, but it is really impressive that he can make Atomica and Catwoman off balance. Interesting that you tried to play it as GL isn't a strength character to "its art which can be viewed however" interesting debate mechanism.
Originally posted by abhilegend
That doesn't affects the Lanterns' feats.Lanterns were. That's what matters.
That's so cute. They are not suggested. The events happened the very same way they did previously. Just a few background characters were not there.
So? What does that mean about power levels?
Its cute that your holding onto a statement said that the events took place and changing it into the events took place in the very same fashion.
Regardless GL obviously either got nerfed or those feats Pre-Flashpoint don't hold as much weight. It's obviously the latter but I'm generous and can go either way.. if someone says New52 Hal it's Hal with Nu52 numbering not I'm going to pick my continuity Hal.
Originally posted by Pillow BiterI'd probably composite the DC team to save any argument on allowable feats.
Not sure this is quite so uneven as people think.Let's imagine some matchups:
Superman vs. Hulk---both have dynamic power levels to some degree, and this is hard to peg. WWH is a beast, guaranteed. Being all-out doesn't guarantee that Superman will be full OWAW level, but he'll still be beastly too. This fight is too close to call.
Thor vs. Orion--also a very even matchup IMO. Perhaps Thor wins in the end, maybe. But it's real close. Could go either way.
Wonder Woman vs. Blue Marvel or Silver Surfer--this is Goddess of War Diana with her bracers off, ready to fight to the death. She's at least a match for either of these two. BM is on a bit of a roll these days, so I might call them too close to call. I actually think WW would beat Thor, or Orion, in these circumstances. I'd give her the edge on the average Surfer portrayal, too.
Martian Manhunter vs. BM or Surfer. Maybe MM is the weak link. But maybe not. Is he really so underpowered that he isn't elite top tier anymore? He may lose vs Surfer or BM, but I think it's a close fight.
Who should I trade MM out for on DC that would even up this fight more? Shazam? Hal Jordan?
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I'm sure breaking the ground under someone's feet will get their attention or yelling but view it as you will.Given that Martian Manhunter isn't Tilting over yet is seeping down I'd call that questionable but again view that as you will, but it is really impressive that he can make Atomica and Catwoman off balance. Interesting that you tried to play it as GL isn't a strength character to "its art which can be viewed however" interesting debate mechanism.
Now Catwoman and Atomica are off balance. Haha, this is just lulzworthy.
Just look how they are all close to Superman and when superman breaks the ground everyone else is off the grid and only after that they are getting up.
But hey, J'onn was just falling down. Gotta save the honor of J'onn at any cost.
Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Its cute that your holding onto a statement said that the events took place and changing it into the events took place in the very same fashion.Regardless GL obviously either got nerfed or those feats Pre-Flashpoint don't hold as much weight. It's obviously the latter but I'm generous and can go either way.. if someone says New52 Hal it's Hal with Nu52 numbering not I'm going to pick my continuity Hal.
You are continuously harping how Hal got nerfed but refuse to show any proof for it.
Classic vine poster.
Originally posted by abhilegend
Again cuteness at its best. But go ahead and tell me how John protecting Diana was unnecessary.Now Catwoman and Atomica are off balance. Haha, this is just lulzworthy.
Just look how they are all close to Superman and when superman breaks the ground everyone else is off the grid and only after that they are getting up.
But hey, J'onn was just falling down. Gotta save the honor of J'onn at any cost.
Why wouldn't they be? Do you have any proof that they didn't?
You are continuously harping how Hal got nerfed but refuse to show any proof for it.
Classic vine poster.
Why carry Flash in a construct when he can run over water and be at any location first? Why keep Cyborg on a construct when he can fly? Why make an umbrella construct to cover Aquaman from the rain? Other stuff also in Johns JL.
You mean like using Pre-Flashpoint scans where Hal mentions Superman as he fights Mongul or characters like Cyborg Superman missing from the mythos of these stories or the fact alot of these feats are impressive because some of them are connected to characters outside the GL mythos, hanging onto Pre-Flashpoint feats is faulty and is done when you can't make a case using the New52 feats which in the end of the day are still the stuff under New52 numbering and still happened in the book whether wanting to be admitted or not. Either Wonder Woman got a massive upgrade even before God Mode or GOW or Hal is weaker.
Are you talking about the panel when you can see only Superman's cape do you honestly pay attention when your looking at scans... Superman is on higher ground all that is shown is his cape that's why you don't see the others. Noone is pulling rubble off themselves after his ground smash Noone is hurt because of it, Flash comments about what Vibe did to him not Superman.
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