DC vs. Marvel: Four on Four Fight

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Unless Shazam is GOG or Hal is Renegade there not doing more then J'onn who honestly at this moment looks like he can TP Blue Marvel. Some understand how he's the weakling considering strength wise he probably has the second best strength feat in the Nu52, his telepathy took down/affected people/person with planetary tp defense, and he has alot of versatility to boot,

Overall, MM has been pretty beastly in the telepath department. Plus, he has a bigger lifting feat than Blue Marvel. MM would win against him, IMO .

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I gave a list of possibilities as to why John covered Diana, just because he offered Diana protection from the Solar flare doesn't mean she couldnt have taken it is my point. If your suggesting Hal and John are comparable I thing the New52 construct history would be in my favor to bring up here. There's also the fact that again John might have better durability to energy attacks seemingly ignored, maybe it was instinct and he just acted, he is a soldier after all and a veteran Lantern.

Those are some hilarious handwaving. Quite simply, Wonder Woman can't take an amped Superman's solar flare.

Heck, she was oneshotted by a random human powered by a portion of Superman's powers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/sfU7nbzKNU0ZkVUE43xsYULEeMVZxIsPz6c1xQ1VW8TU8rSiIt7UGCaYnIJ-yooAkAvogOFpnMxJ=s1600

I'd like you to rationalize this as how GLs are beneath Wonder woman.

Why carry Flash in a construct when he can run over water and be at any location first? Why keep Cyborg on a construct when he can fly? Why make an umbrella construct to cover Aquaman from the rain? Other stuff also in Johns JL.

Those are some absurd red herrings. Kudos.

You mean like using Pre-Flashpoint scans where Hal mentions Superman as he fights Mongul or characters like Cyborg Superman missing from the mythos of these stories or the fact alot of these feats are impressive because some of them are connected to characters outside the GL mythos, hanging onto Pre-Flashpoint feats is faulty and is done when you can't make a case using the New52 feats which in the end of the day are still the stuff under New52 numbering and still happened in the book whether wanting to be admitted or not.

Take a deep breath and then try to read what you just posted. And no, it doesn't has to connect to outside GL mythos to be impressive.

New 52 GLs are as powerful as before.

Either Wonder Woman got a massive upgrade even before God Mode or GOW or Hal is weaker.

Noone is pulling rubble off themselves after his ground smash Noone is hurt because of it, Flash comments about what Vibe did to him not Superman.

Yes, because scattering a group of people with shockwave doesn't means much. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

Diana making Hal fly away with a stomp doesn't means, well anything. Diana got the first shot, Hal got the last shot. It was a stalemate in every sense of the world where Diana was close to bloodlusted and Hal wasn't.

If you want to see someone dominating Hal, see Superman's fight with him.

Originally posted by Zack M
Overall, MM has been pretty beastly in the telepath department. Plus, he has a bigger lifting feat than Blue Marvel. MM would win against him, IMO .

Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn has a pretty lousy record against any heavy hitter in new 52. Cyborg Superman, Zod and Superboy all beat the ****ing shit out of him.

When it comes to mind ****ery, MM has some high ones too. Mind wiping Stormwatch, Legion, and fooling some of the JLA. Blue Marvel doesn't have high mental resistance.

He had some feats in Stormwatch.

His exit from that series was ridiculous btw. Christ that book went to shit.

His solo book was pretty cool. Check that out.

Starlin would do that to any book.

Originally posted by abhilegend
J'onn has a pretty lousy record against any heavy hitter in new 52. Cyborg Superman, Zod and Superboy all beat the ****ing shit out of him.

Well that's pretty much three copies of Superman (Superboy was getting a push for a while as being possibly more powerful than Superman, though those pushes always tend to melt away over time).
What other heavy hitters that aren't Superman analogues has Martian Manhunter matched up against in the new 52?

Originally posted by Zack M
When it comes to mind ****ery, MM has some high ones too. Mind wiping Stormwatch, Legion, and fooling some of the JLA. Blue Marvel doesn't have high mental resistance.

No hard evidence of doesn't mean he doesn't. I'm pretty sure he does for the same reason Superman does and Black Bolt does as I explained earlier in the thread.

Poor jonn. He's just not good enough

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No hard evidence of doesn't mean he doesn't. I'm pretty sure he does for the same reason Superman does and Black Bolt does as I explained earlier in the thread.

😬

Originally posted by abhilegend
Those are some hilarious handwaving. Quite simply, Wonder Woman can't take an amped Superman's solar flare.

Heck, she was oneshotted by a random human powered by a portion of Superman's powers.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/sfU7nbzKNU0ZkVUE43xsYULEeMVZxIsPz6c1xQ1VW8TU8rSiIt7UGCaYnIJ-yooAkAvogOFpnMxJ=s1600

I'd like you to rationalize this as how GLs are beneath Wonder woman.

Those are some absurd red herrings. Kudos.

Take a deep breath and then try to read what you just posted. And no, it doesn't has to connect to outside GL mythos to be impressive.

New 52 GLs are as powerful as before.
Why? On one hand you're talking about how pre Flashpoint characters are different than new 52 but that somehow doesn't matter for GL and Wonder Woman?

Why would Diana need an upgrade to shatter some constructs or stalemating Hal?
Now suddenly Superman is on higher ground despite the fact that he was on the same level as everyone and broke ground all around him.

We will see how many mental gymnastics you can do.

Yes, because scattering a group of people with shockwave doesn't means much. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

Diana making Hal fly away with a stomp doesn't means, well anything. Diana got the first shot, Hal got the last shot. It was a stalemate in every sense of the world where Diana was close to bloodlusted and Hal wasn't.

If you want to see someone dominating Hal, see Superman's fight with him.

I never suggested Diana was on par with Superman you were the one that did that. So suggesting she got oneshotted by someone with Superman's powers doesn't really loosen my foothold in anyway.

You keep telling yourself that the New52 GLC are still as powerful I guess that just means Wonder Woman could casually have breaker their constructs Pre-Flashpoint as well and on top of that this is an early Wonder Woman with no amps as well as lacking strength and striking showings.

Are you blind or do you continously ignore the fact the only time Hal was able to restrain Wonder Woman is when she wasn't focused on him, that's why he comes off worse in the scan. The first panel Hal tries to restrain Wonder Woman downplay it if you want but it shows that he couldn't. He gets backhanded and his little exchange with Flash shows he's wanting a fight at that instance so he goes back to for more. Only to get sliced and then stomped away. Superman distracts Diana and Hal grabs her in a construct which she breaks out of. Unfinished or not we see enough of it to know who had the upper hand. Noone tried to stop Hal from going back to Diana because he 2as outclassed.

On top of that there's the Superman fight against Hal that shows there not on the same footing either. So your Solar man reference is pointless given that I've never suggested Diana as a equal for one, and Hal hasn't shown the ability to do any better.

Now I honestly think your incapable of looking at context the ground shattered underneath everyone's feet for some reason the ground under Superman's feet stayed at a higher level that's not rocket science you can see it in the scan that's why Superman everyone is below Superman because he's on higher surface it like being on a hill while others are on the flat ground ofcourse your going to look higher. Also bringing up the Superman instance he sent Hal across the city by stomping the ground...

Keep this up though I'm curious to what else you can come up with. Also given the Diana vs Hal fight she doesn't need an upgrade to fight him my point was that was before she got any upgrades and Hal couldn't compete.

In regards to MM I'm not sure where the Cyborg Superman fight happened.
The Superboy fight is just a good feat for Superboy, keep in mind the instances J'onn has phased to avoid being hit or the fact he could of tpd Superboy or the fact he seems stronger when he changes his body size.
The Zod fight has context

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
I never suggested Diana was on par with Superman you were the one that did that. So suggesting she got oneshotted by someone with Superman's powers doesn't really loosen my foothold in anyway.

Superman is Above pretty much anyone in DC. If you're comparing Hal or Diana to comparison, you will lose.

But the fact remains that Hal and John tool the energy blast from an amped Superman while Diana had to be saved.

So much for Diana being above Hal, eh?

You keep telling yourself that the New52 GLC are still as powerful I guess that just means Wonder Woman could casually have breaker their constructs Pre-Flashpoint as well and on top of that this is an early Wonder Woman with no amps as well as lacking strength and striking showings.

Yes, why not? She broke one construct with her strength and rest were shattered by her strength.

You're too hung on strength and striking showings.

DCnU Wonder Woman is much more impressive than Pre Flashpoint wonder woman. That's pretty much a fact.

Are you blind or do you continously ignore the fact the only time Hal was able to restrain Wonder Woman is when she wasn't focused on him, that's why he comes off worse in the scan.

You're just too hung on a single scan. It's laughable really.

The first panel Hal tries to restrain Wonder Woman downplay it if you want but it shows that he couldn't. He gets backhanded and his little exchange with Flash shows he's wanting a fight at that instance so he goes back to for more. Only to get sliced and then stomped away.

Which has close to zero effect on him and he is shown attacking Wonder Woman again.

Getting sliced by a sword and knocked away doesn't means anything. How many times it's going to be feed to you?

Superman distracts Diana and Hal grabs her in a construct which she breaks out of. Unfinished or not we see enough of it to know who had the upper hand. Noone tried to stop Hal from going back to Diana because he 2as outclassed.

No, we didn't see anything about who was outclassed. She broke out of the constraints via her sword, not by punching them out.

He was so outclassed that he was having the last shot before the fight was broken.

Bravo, you just closed the case.

On top of that there's the Superman fight against Hal that shows there not on the same footing either. So your Solar man reference is pointless given that I've never suggested Diana as a equal for one, and Hal hasn't shown the ability to do any better.

Well, Superman can do that to pretty much anyone.

Hal is closer to Superman than Wonder woman is though.

Now I honestly think your incapable of looking at context the ground shattered underneath everyone's feet for some reason the ground under Superman's feet stayed at a higher level that's not rocket science you can see it in the scan that's why Superman everyone is below Superman because he's on higher surface it like being on a hill while others are on the flat ground ofcourse your going to look higher. Also bringing up the Superman instance he sent Hal across the city by stomping the ground...

Haha, this is just hilarious. "Superman was on higher ground." "Why? "." For some reason". "Why don't you see it the same way I do?".

Now he was on a hill.

Keep digging. It's just getting more and more hilarious.

Keep this up though I'm curious to what else you can come up with. Also given the Diana vs Hal fight she doesn't need an upgrade to fight him my point was that was before she got any upgrades and Hal couldn't compete.

Hal was competitive though. But I'm curious why you are lowballing Hal with the Wonder woman fight.

Orion treated Hal way worse than either Superman or Wonder Woman did.

Do unless you think Hal is low Herald level, Orion isn't something to sneeze at.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
In regards to MM I'm not sure where the Cyborg Superman fight happened.

Superman Doomed 2. A weakened Cyborg oneshotted him.

Just after that, Kara beat the shit out of Cyborg.

The Superboy fight is just a good feat for Superboy, keep in mind the instances J'onn has phased to avoid being hit or the fact he could of tpd Superboy or the fact he seems stronger when he changes his body size.

Standard comicvine response. Anytime J'onn loses its "He could have phased or TP or do a random thing."

He got oneshotted. Simple as that.

The Zod fight has context

J'onn is this invincible team buster only on comicvine.

👆

Geez, you are such a jerk, Abby. When someone makes a point, your response is "It doesn't mean anything." Really? "You're getting hung up on one scan?" Remember that the next time you start throwing that ONE panel of the Red Skull in an advantageous position over T'Challa as evidence he "beat the shit out of" him and needed to be saved. Way to minimize things you don't like. You are impossible and you like it that way.

Originally posted by abhilegend
Superman is Above pretty much anyone in DC. If you're comparing Hal or Diana to comparison, you will lose.

But the fact remains that Hal and John tool the energy blast from an amped Superman while Diana had to be saved.

So much for Diana being above Hal, eh?

Yes, why not? She broke one construct with her strength and rest were shattered by her strength.

You're too hung on strength and striking showings.

DCnU Wonder Woman is much more impressive than Pre Flashpoint wonder woman. That's pretty much a fact.

You're just too hung on a single scan. It's laughable really.

Which has close to zero effect on him and he is shown attacking Wonder Woman again.

Getting sliced by a sword and knocked away doesn't means anything. How many times it's going to be feed to you?

No, we didn't see anything about who was outclassed. She broke out of the constraints via her sword, not by punching them out.

He was so outclassed that he was having the last shot before the fight was broken.

Bravo, you just closed the case.

Well, Superman can do that to pretty much anyone.

Hal is closer to Superman than Wonder woman is though.

Haha, this is just hilarious. "Superman was on higher ground." "Why? "." For some reason". "Why don't you see it the same way I do?".

Now he was on a hill.

Keep digging. It's just getting more and more hilarious.

Hal was competitive though. But I'm curious why you are lowballing Hal with the Wonder woman fight.

Orion treated Hal way worse than either Superman or Wonder Woman did.

Do unless you think Hal is low Herald level, Orion isn't something to sneeze at.

Your logic is Diana was covered in a weak sauce energy construct equating to she had to be saved.. How does this counter the fact she was stomping Hal. It honestly doesn't. Fact is Hal's never been beaten as bad as he was against opponents of that tier Pre-Flashpoint whether it be Superman, Wonder Woman or Orion he's usually faired better. Nu52 seems to be different though.

But Yeah J'onn could of phased like he did against the Justice League in the JLA issue or like he did when Aquaman lunged at him, he could of TP'd any of them, He could of changed his density. I'm not ignoring that he's been beaten physically am I though? I'm not looking at scans and going "Lalallalaala I can't see them".the same Zod that beat up Superman to mention as well. Regardless of his physical fights again MMH has the second best strength feat in the New52 and during Trinity War was doing fine against Wonder Woman something Hal can't claim to have done in the New52.

If Hal had better showings of harming people with his constructs or his constructs had better durability I wouldn't judge him so harshly. I'll give him the fact that he made Superman bleed with a construct attack though that was first move and Superman clearly had the last couple.

What I'm hung up on is Constructs don't seem to be as powerful as they were against Heralds is all I'm saying

Wonder Woman has gotten an amp since her fight against Hal where she did better whereas Hal had that Renegade thing going but that didnt last.

In regards to the solar flare. I find it hard to believe a construct would take other better then Diana would given she can take Rao's heat vision up close which was suggested as more powerful then Superman's and lasted longer given he was fueled by several lives.

Originally posted by EcstaticGrace
Your logic is Diana was covered in a weak sauce energy construct equating to she had to be saved.. How does this counter the fact she was stomping Hal. It honestly doesn't. Fact is Hal's never been beaten as bad as he was against opponents of that tier Pre-Flashpoint whether it be Superman, Wonder Woman or Orion he's usually faired better. Nu52 seems to be different though.

But Yeah J'onn could of phased like he did against the Justice League in the JLA issue or like he did when Aquaman lunged at him, he could of TP'd any of them, He could of changed his density. I'm not ignoring that he's been beaten physically am I though? I'm not looking at scans and going "Lalallalaala I can't see them". In the Zod instance Zod attacked and unprepared MMH challenge that up to however to want but that's a fact nonetheless this is the same Zod who was beating up Superman. Regardless of his physical fights again MMH has the second best strength feat in the New52 and during Trinity War was doing fine against Wonder Woman something Hal can't claim to have done in the New52.

If Hal had better showings of harming people with his constructs or his constructs had better durability I wouldn't judge him so harshly. I'll give him the fact that he made Superman bleed with a construct attack though that was first move and Superman clearly had the last couple.

What I'm hung up on is Constructs don't seem to be as powerful as they were against Heralds is all I'm saying

Wonder Woman has gotten an amp since her fight against Hal where she did better whereas Hal had that Renegade thing going but that didnt last.

The constructs tend to be fodder against herald levelers and his overall durability is questionable. Abby knows this.

Originally posted by Blue Area Vet
No hard evidence of doesn't mean he doesn't. I'm pretty sure he does for the same reason Superman does and Black Bolt does as I explained earlier in the thread.

What a stupid argument... Well no surprise based on who is coming from.

Nice association fallacy idiot 👆