Revan and Meetra Surik Run The Gauntlet

Started by Deronn_solo10 pages
Originally posted by SunRazer
Lucas said "it could've been 200%, now it's 80%". That's clearly a reference to potential, since he's talking about Vader immediately following the events of Mustafar.

He never said "it" as referring to a intangible thing --- potential. He said " he" is now 20%, as if referring to Vader the person, not potenrial, and in current tense.

otherwise, Vader, right as he's reconstructed after Mustafar, is 80% of Sidious. That's laughable, considering that despite his rage and explosive usages of the Force in the operation room, he couldn't even affect Sidious. That wouldn't be the case if he had 80% of Sidious' power.

Umm...what? IIRC, The quote was referring to Vader as of ESB/RotJ --- hence, why George was talking about Palpatine having his eyes set on Luke Skywalker, because he could have been 200% himself, rather than what Vader was now 80%.

Pretty much what I said. But please, do continue telling me how I know nothing while making statements that contradict factual evidence. thumb up
Also, I'm going to need proof, not your conjecture, that Surik's drain is somehow unique from the actual description of Drain that also applies to the Dark Reaper;

None of that dictates how the machine works. Does it draw the force energy of everything around it at once? Is it targeted, drawing the energies of the strongest Force Users first? Can it be tricked by simply masking one's presence in the force, is that how Qel-Droma deceives it? The fact that any of those statements are even a possibility proves that applying Vader's resistance to drain to every form of drain is nothing more than a fallacy.

The fact is, the Jedi Council had encountered Drain before. The Dark Reaper crisis occurred during the lifetimes of Masters Vrook, Zez Kai-Ell and Kavar. Yet all these esteemed and knowledgable Jedi failed to apply the widely known Jedi counter to the Dark Reaper against Traya. All the Jedi who fell to the assassins of the Triumvirate failed to apply the well known Jedi "counter to force drain". They all died, after being fed upon.

Surik's drain is linked entirely to her Force Wound, and the technique of the Sith to feed on the Jedi that is described as new (despite being prevalent in previous Empires) is also linked to her, and Malachor.


"It has left a hole, a hunger that cannot be filled. In you we saw a wound in the force, in you we saw the end of the force [...] It is the teaching of these new Sith, to feed on others, on other force sensitives. They are systematic of the wound in the force. You are a breach that must be closed. [...] Within you we see something worse than merely the teachings of the Sith.
Traya was talking about herself not being able to defend against Nihilus' Sever Force, not drain. Besides, you're using a rather large no limit fallacy here. I am to assume now that Meetra can drain every single Force user she fights? Yoda? Palpatine? The Ones? The Bedlams? Is there a limit? There obviously is one, and currently her limit is sub-Vader scrubs, so I doubt that'll make a change in this fight.

lmao wat.

"This technique blinds your enemy to the Force with a wall of light, a permanent blockage if you so choose, rendering him unable to use Jedi powers. It is difficult. And it is the most devastating attack possible using the powers of the light side. To block a Jedi from the Force—even a Dark Jedi—is a terrible thing."

Nihilus wall of light confirmed. Nihilus the true paragon of Dark and Light. Move over Revan, you fugging wannabe.

Sever force. Lmao.

Yes, Nihilus' drain isn't standard drain, and perhaps it encompasses some of the sphere that encompasses Sever Force, but his technique was not cutting her off from the force, that is not how he works. He fed from her like he fed from everyone else, and the fact you're suggesting that Nihilus' drain is uniques, but the Exile's is not (when they are precisely the same thing) is clinically retarded.

Oh, and yes, she'd probably be able to drain Yoda, Palpatine and potentially even The Ones, on the presumption they don't decide to ragdoll her. Krayt managed to drain Abeloth just fine, despite being infinitely inferior to her. Drain has no defense, that's kind of the point, higher tier beings can simply deal with it far more effectively.

Traya, Nyriss, Sion, etc. They were, indeed, barely affected by it. And even Nihilus, someone who's magnitude sh!ts on Meetra's, couldn't kill a non-Force sensitive during combat with his passive Force Drain, so why Surik can make a big change against Vader via her passive Drain is beyond me.

****ing lmao you listed Nyriss. This is why I don't take you seriously. The Exile healed her wound years before fighting Nyriss, it's why she was significantly less impressive than during The Dark Wars.

As for Sion and Traya, give me a quote that suggests they weren't affected, please. They're sitting on a "colossal geyser of Dark Side Energy", of course they'd be able to shrug off Drain more effectively than on neutral ground.

Finally, no, Nihilus' drain killed everyone in his immediate vicinity, he simply kept the crew of his ship alive through his own energies. He needed them alive. As for Mandalore, the only explanation of his survival is the symbiotic link he has with the Exile, he was able to replenish through her whatever Nihilus passively stole.
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Why the **** are you both talking about Drain when the only time Surik has used it is after killing someone, and the fact that she can't use it at the end of KotOR II anyway?

Originally posted by Deronn_solo
He never said "it" as referring to a intangible thing --- potential. He said " he" is now 20%, as if referring to Vader the person, not potenrial, and in current tense. Umm...what? IIRC, The quote was referring to Vader as of ESB/RotJ --- hence, why George was talking about Palpatine having his eyes set on Luke Skywalker, because he could have been 200% himself, rather than what Vader was now 80%.

Nothing refers to RotJ or ESB in the interview here: http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2005/02/star-wars-george-lucas-story

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,” he says. “But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there’s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than him."

He said Vader could've been 200% of Palpatine, but the events of Mustafar changed that to 80%. If he's referring to actualized, effective power, then that should apply immediately, which it obviously doesn't. Moreover, he says "maybe twenty percent", which sounds like a very generous estimate and certainly not canonical figure.

Anyone can post the actual quote?

Originally posted by FreshestSlice
Why the **** are you both talking about Drain when the only time Surik has used it is after killing someone, and the fact that she can't use it at the end of KotOR II anyway?

She uses it passively throughout the game, that's supposed to be one of the great reveals. The Jedi masters describe it as "becoming stronger when other force sensitives are near."

Oh, and she can't use it after she heals her wound, which isn't the end of KotOR II. If he asked about Non-Wound!Surik, then yeh, you'd be right.

Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Anyone can post the actual quote?

Edited it in above.

Originally posted by Selenial
She uses it passively throughout the game, that's supposed to be one of the great reveals. The Jedi masters describe it as "becoming stronger when other force sensitives are near."

Oh, and she can't use it after she heals her wound, which isn't the end of KotOR II. If he asked about Non-Wound!Surik, then yeh, you'd be right.

Yet no one seems to really be affected when around her so....I don't see how it's gonna be affecting anyone here.

Plus you're really gonna compare that Drain to this Drain?

https://youtu.be/1lxFz6lguyU?t=399

https://youtu.be/1lxFz6lguyU?t=427

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Yet no one seems to really be affected when around her so....I don't see how it's gonna be affecting anyone here.

Source?

Because I find your opinion on the animations in game irrelevant 🙂

Originally posted by Selenial
Source?

Because I find your opinion on the animations in game irrelevant 🙂

You just said it, she passively drains others, yet no one feels any real difference around them that it kills them.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
You just said it, she passively drains others, yet no one feels any real difference around them that it kills them.

Please quote me where I have once stated it would kill any of the people in this thread.

Unless you're suggesting everyone in the game would state, right before their death at her hands "oh no I feel like you've been draining me this whole time i've fallen into your trap oh dear".

It's stated in a cutscene because there's no way of subtly but openly showing it throughout the entire game.

Originally posted by Selenial
She uses it passively throughout the game, that's supposed to be one of the great reveals. The Jedi masters describe it as "becoming stronger when other force sensitives are near."

Unless everyone in this gauntlet is going to Force Bond with her and be best friends, I'm not seeing the point. It was hardly in any combat capacity anyway.

Oh, and she can't use it after she heals her wound, which isn't the end of KotOR II. If he asked about Non-Wound!Surik, then yeh, you'd be right.

Uh, yeah it is. She lets go of her bond with Kreia and the past, and then blows up Malachor.

Originally posted by Zenwolf
Plus you're really gonna compare that Drain to this Drain?

https://youtu.be/1lxFz6lguyU?t=399

https://youtu.be/1lxFz6lguyU?t=427

<------------- Point

\O/ <------------- Your head.

Originally posted by SunRazer
Nothing refers to RotJ or ESB in the interview

So I guess him going on to mention recruiting Luke to be his apprentice, in the next sentence is referring to RotS, right?

"Anakin, as Skywalker, as a human being, was going to be extremely powerful,0‰9¢ã0ƒ9 he says. 0‰9¢ã0“4But he ended up losing his legs and an arm and became partly a robot. So a lot of his ability to use the Force, a lot of his powers, are curbed at this point, because, as a living form, there0‰9¢ã6¾4s not that much of him left. So his ability to be twice as good as the Emperor disappeared, and now he's maybe 20 percent less than him. He said Vader could've been 200% of Palpatine, but the events of Mustafar changed that to 80%. If he's referring to actualized, effective power, then that should apply immediately, which it obviously doesn't. Moreover, he says "maybe twenty percent", which sounds like a very generous estimate and certainly not canonical figure.

Again, learn basic English and grammar. If he meant potential, he wouldn't have said: " Vader is now maybe 80% less than him"

Ask anyone with a brain, and it obviously refers to the present tense, rather than an intangible thing in a future.

By saying and "he's", Lucas is referring to an actual person, and not an intangible "maybe" , lime potential --- in the future. Or now, which directly refers to the present tense, again, when used in conjunction with the above, it makes no sense if it was referring to the future.

Again, in order for the quote to mean what you think it does, George would have had to say "now his potential is 80% the Emperors" which, he didn't.

Also, it's totally possible that Vader did have 80% the raw power Palpatine had by RotS, but lacked the mastery, mindset, and ability to combatively call upon it.

This site is shit-tier and isn't allowing me to edit my post, KEK.

^ does it return a blank post?

1. That's a separate part of the paragraph. He goes on to say that it's because of Anakin's lost potential that he [eventually] does this and that. His reference to being 20% less than the Emperor was in the same sentence as his description of Vader's lost potential on Mustafar.

2.

[b]Also, it's totally possible that Vader did have 80% the raw power Palpatine had by RotS, but lacked the mastery, mindset, and ability to combatively call upon it.[b]

Pretty much what I've said for a while. Vader could well have 80% of Palpatine's raw power, just not the mastery or knowledge to wield it as effective power. That's precisely what potential is - raw power. Mastering your potential means mastering your power and being able to wield it effectively. So the scope of Vader's raw power is largely irrelevant since he can't call upon all of it - he's yet to obtain the knowledge and mastery to do so. So there's little point bringing it up in a thread. Maul apparently had the raw power, or potential, to match or even supersede Sidious as well, yet his actualized power obviously isn't anywhere near that.

And as I said, Lucas' "maybe" throws a serious spanner into your rather dogmatic interpretation of the sentence. He's obviously making a generalization, a guess - and a rather generous one, at that.

"Now he's maybe" sounds very much like he refers to Vader actual power. Otherwise he would've said something like "Now he migh only get to be".

Raw power, sure. That's basically potential. Actualized, effective power? Obviously not, as feats and portrayals indicate.

Nah