Originally posted by MythLord
then why are we even discussing this? This is suppose to be novel Meetra, is it not? [...] But like I said: why are we taking this into account when it's suppose to be novel Meetra?
"at the end of their respective KotOR games, fully refreshed and prepared for battle. "
I'm happy replying to the rest of your argument, I just want to check if you're going to concede as soon as you re-read the first line of the OP.
Originally posted by Selenial
"at the end of their respective KotOR games, fully refreshed and prepared for battle. "I'm happy replying to the rest of your argument, I just want to check if you're going to concede as soon as you re-read the first line of the OP.
Ah, then alright; I never read the OP except for the rounds. I'm awaiting your response, dear.
Originally posted by AncientPower
She's undoubtedly an idiot, she is infact the reason everything went south in the first place. For her enemies and herself.
Don't get me wrong, I believe that the more her children suffer the more desperate and insane she becomes, but to start with she played the game well.
She pushed for Ned's survival despite the potential threat he posed. She killed Robert subtly and in a way no-one could ever prove. She even tried to get over her intense hatred of Tyrion to allow them both to rule effectively.
What most people call her mistakes (turning on the Tyrells etc) aren't actually mistakes if you factor in her intentions behind them. She never turned on the Tyrells for power or security, the throne and the realm weren't what she feared for in regards to them. Her entire character arc has been around protecting her children despite an entire country that wants them controlled or killed, and up until her actions regarding the sept she did well.
Originally posted by Selenial
*shrug*She won, so not really. Granted Daenerys' Dothraki will probably take turns but-fugging her, but there wasn't anyone alive in Kings Landing who actually cared about that anyway.
Originally posted by MythLord
>gives a quote stating exactly what the machine does
>still questions what the machine doesThe same questions you asked about the Force Harvester can be asked about drain.
Your quote was vague and answered nothing, the fact it strips away life force is ridiculously obvious.
And since you cannot answer any of them, why do you feel confident in the application of your obscene fallacy?
That's funny because it's stated that after the war against the Dark Reaper, all of it's secrets were lost and weren't re-discovered until the PT era. So that's how none of the masters can defend against it.
A timescale for that was never established. Mace is describing events that happened four thousand years prior. Since it was such a widely spread secret, it disappearing as soon as the device was destroyed makes no sense. It disappearing after the Triumvirate execute every living Jedi and destroy the majority of their knowledge, however, does make sense. And fits Mace's timescale as disappearing "after the war".
Sever force isn't exclusive to only Jedi lmao. Then there's the fact that Nihilus has been stated as knowing Severe Force and that's exactly what happened; he didn't drain Traya of her life energies, he severed her from the Force. So again, do continue calling me an idiot whilst you contradict factual evidence 👆
The un-defendable aspect of it is. The Wall of Light is what makes sever force so lethal, the Dark Side version is a perversion of Force Drain. Nihilus' "sever force" is only ever described in a Sourcebook and a roleplaying guide, which aren't exactly the most infallible of sources. Even then, it's true, Nihilus can cut an individual from the force... by draining them. Why on earth would he sever Traya from the force instead of consuming her, it is entirely contradictory to his character progression and character arc. It's not like she was making it out of there alive, when she was facing Nihilus and Sion.
Krayt drained an Abeloth who wasn't defending from him but was more focused on Luke and wasn't even that damaged by it, IIRC, and while Hett was amped. And Krayt is vastly superior to Surik in power, so not the best comparison, hon.
And if the defense was so easy as you suggest, and not distracting at all, she would have been fine defending against it anyway. To suggest Abeloth was more distracted by Luke than Vader would be by Revan and Surik is utterly ridiculous....
Even on that "massive geyser of Dark Side Energy", Sion shouldn't be comparable to Vader, like, at all.
Irrelevant, I never said he was.
So Mandalore survived because of his Force Bond with Meetra? Do you have any proof there was a Bond to begin with, or is that more of your conjecture?
She's stated to be bonded to them all, even the "non force-sensitives" which is literally just Mandalore.
Originally posted by cs_zoltan
Ned pretty much told her his plans, and he posed no threat to her because of his honor. If he swears not to tell anyone about her and Jaime then he wouldn't have.And Robert was just a drunk old fool, not to mention Tyrion did find out anyway iirc.
Tyrion pieced it together through a conversation with her IIRC, he'd have no proof.
Yeh, Ned told her his plans, and she managed to get the king killed, the City Watch under her thumb and him set up for failure by the time he had any chance of acting on them. That specific scenario was a complete win.
Originally posted by FreshestSlice
She didn't even not-really win. She pissed off the Reach, the most populated region in Westeros and with the largest army. So she has Dorne, the Reach, and LOlthraki for Dany, the Vale, the Riverlands(probably), and the North for Jon. She's sandwiched between two massive armies. She is going to get raped. Which is exactly what that **** deserves.
Yeh, agreed. Thing is though, like I said, her motivations were her children. Now she's on the throne she's bat shit crazy and probably going to **** up royal, but she saw how Tommen was being used and she acted.
Same with Myrcella, she probably ended up positioning a huge ally on the side of Daenerys with what she did, but if she hadn't, Myrcella would have died at the hands of the Sand Snaked, who would have marched on the Lannisters anyway as soon as Daenerys arrived...
Originally posted by Deronn_solo
Debating Nova is pointless when he makes his mind up. Pointless red herring and sementics plagues his post, LMAO.I'm not going to repeat myself; the obvious --- thrice, so believe what you will. 👆
What semantics and red herrings? It's your interpretation that this refers to effective and actualized power as opposed to raw power. I don't interpret it that way, and unless a canonical source closes the book on this, then it's open to interpretation.
I'm saying that portrayals and feats don't back the idea that Vader is effectively 80% of RotJ Sidious in terms of power, and you're not deciding to run away because that's a "red herring" or a "semantic", which shows more than you don't understand what those words mean than anything else.
I also said that you can't precisely quantify what 20% of Sidious' power is, and I haven't seen anybody debate that point. Until you actually address my arguments, then that's a concession on both you and Zoltan's part. I'm hardly being unreasonable here. I'm just asking you to prove that it's effective, mastered power as opposed to raw power, and I'm asking you what you think 20% of Sidious' power is.
That was a feat Plagueis did with two of his three hearts recently stopped, with him having lost much of his blood and still losing blood, and decades from his prime.
Considering Meetra beat Traya on a "colossal geyser of dark side energy" and Vader had trouble with An'ya Kuro, Surik walks all over Robocop.
Also, I recall this discussion starting on the basis that Vader could one-shot Surik, which absolutely nobody has proven. 👆
Regarding the Lannisters:
They ain't shit without Papa.
Lena Headey is amazing, but Cersei's such an unlikeable Kunt who lacks her father's and siblings' more charming qualities. Tyrion and Jamie are engaging antiheroes and you had to respect Tywin, but everything Cersei does just backfires in spectacular fashion. 'Strap is right: the only way Cersei lasts more than two episodes into season 7 would be due to an epic authorial asspull. I hope we see a long, brutal, protracted destruction for someone so appalling.
Nova --- you make me absolutely sick to my stomach sometimes. No matter how many times I have to explain from a grammatical standpoint, I'm correct in regards to the quote, you just reach like Reed Richards.
I'll get to your post, tomorrow, if I feel like chemo'ing through your cancer, that is.
P.S. I didn't say shit about Vader one-shotting Meetra, IIRC so get out outta here with that bullshit. 👆
Never mind, the one-shotting was from another thread.
You Vader supporters don't have anything except calling people who disagree with you cancer and slugging them with whatever insults you can while running away. The idea that asking somebody to quantify 20% of Sidious' power for the sake of clarity is cancer is ****ing laughable and destroys all of your credibility as a debater 👆