Feat-to-feat or even accolade-to-accolade, Kressh is absolutely and utterly annihilated here. To conclude it would be anything other than an outright stomp requires enormous magnanimity of the sort that I'm disinclined to offer since most of the people supporting Kressh wouldn't give a PT/OT character the benefit of the doubt if feats were otherwise lacking.
I'll probably cast my withheld vote for the Zabrak soon.
Originally posted by SunRazer
How's it an outright stomp "accolade-to-accolade"?
Because all of Ludo's specific accolades that I'm aware of declare him to be one of the strongest aspirants to Ragnos's throne or some combination thereof whereas Maul is consistently referred to as one of the best ever.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Because all of Ludo's specific accolades that I'm aware of declare him to be one of the strongest aspirants to Ragnos's throne or some combination thereof whereas Maul is consistently referred to as one of the best ever.
Maul's consistently referred to as one of the most powerful Sith ever? I don't think so. He's only described as one of the most skilled Sith ever, IIRC.
Ludo's also one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, per his penchant for Alchemy (The Dark Side Sourcebook), and the TOR Encyclopedia/codex, though that only goes up to TOR.
Originally posted by SunRazer
Maul's consistently referred to as one of the most powerful Sith ever? I don't think so. He's only described as one of the most skilled Sith ever, IIRC.Ludo's also one of the most powerful Sith Lords ever, per his penchant for Alchemy (The Dark Side Sourcebook), and the TOR Encyclopedia/codex, though that only goes up to TOR.
Maul's consistently referred to as one of the most highly trained, skilled, and dangerous Sith Lords ever.
I believe the DSSB quote references the idea that "only the most powerful Sith" have a penchant for Sith alchemy, or some such, but then so do the reborn Emperor's obscure dark side adepts.
I don't doubt that Ludo would rank among the best ever. But whereas Ludo's would be shared among the likes of Cronal or other randoms, Maul's accolades are a bit more specific and impressive.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
Maul's consistently referred to as one of the most highly trained, skilled, and dangerous Sith Lords ever.I believe the DSSB quote references the idea that "only the most powerful Sith" have a penchant for Sith alchemy, or some such, but then so do the reborn Emperor's obscure dark side adepts.
I don't doubt that Ludo would rank among the best ever. But whereas Ludo's would be shared among the likes of Cronal or other randoms, Maul's accolades are a bit more specific and impressive.
1. Once isn't "consistently". Also, that doesn't directly refer to Force Power, though Maul really should have some of those.
2. Eh. It does mention Sadow, Kun and Sidious specifically, though.
3. Cronal? Nah.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Once isn't "consistently". Also, that doesn't directly refer to Force Power, though Maul really should have some of those.2. Eh. It does mention Sadow, Kun and Sidious specifically, though.
3. Cronal? Nah.
1. Pretty sure it's about 3 times; I'll check. And in a world where Force power has a decisive advantage over technique in most situations, why would you think that one of the most dangerous Sith ever lacks power?
2. Yeah and The Old Republic Encyclopedia says that both Thanaton and Vitiate are "supremely powerful," but we know Vitiate would take Thanaton to the curb. Just because Kressh is mentioned in the same sentence as Kun or Palpatine doesn't mean he'd last longer than 3 seconds against them.
3. Cronal was the Emperor's chief monster maker, as I recall.
Originally posted by Zenwolf
Hm? Nova, you forget my DJ RT? Where Palps' Dark Adepts were doing all kinds of crazy Sith Alchemy experiments and such?
I couldn't have, since Zapan871 and I have been in a lot of PM discussions recently and we discuss a lot about what Palpatine's adepts can and can't do - including the (limited) creation and control of Force Storms.
Originally posted by The_Tempest
1. Pretty sure it's about 3 times; I'll check. And in a world where Force power has a decisive advantage over technique in most situations, why would you think that one of the most dangerous Sith ever lacks power?2. Yeah and The Old Republic Encyclopedia says that both Thanaton and Vitiate are "supremely powerful," but we know Vitiate would take Thanaton to the curb. Just because Kressh is mentioned in the same sentence as Kun or Palpatine doesn't mean he'd last longer than 3 seconds against them.
3. Cronal was the Emperor's chief monster maker, as I recall.
1. Never said he was lacking in power, only that the quote itself doesn't necessarily indicate immense power. I mean, if he has only a passable amount of power but is immensely skilled in the lightsaber and martial arts, as well as other stealth-based skills, and his fighting style is designed to counter Jedi specifically, would he still not be one of the most dangerous Sith ever?
And besides, this hardly "annihilates" Kressh's accolades.
2. Kressh wasn't mentioned there, but I know.
3. Kressh makes Gauntlets, not monsters. And his Gauntlet could protect someone from any of Cronal's monstrosities.
Originally posted by SunRazer
1. Never said he was lacking in power, only that the quote itself doesn't necessarily indicate immense power.
Given that Maul exists, again, "in a world where Force power has a decisive advantage over technique in most situations," and is still considered a GOAT, I'd say it would almost have to indicate immense power.
Originally posted by SunRazer
I mean, if he has only a passable amount of power but is immensely skilled in the lightsaber and martial arts, as well as other stealth-based skills, and his fighting style is designed to counter Jedi specifically, would he still not be one of the most dangerous Sith ever?
Unlikely. But even if so, we know from other considerations that Maul's clearly not lacking in raw power. And since the question about his power is really relative to Kressh's power, I'll remind you that Maul demonstrates far greater "power" than Kressh ever has.
Originally posted by SunRazer
2. Kressh wasn't mentioned there, but I know.
Just saying.
Originally posted by SunRazer
3. Kressh makes Gauntlets, not monsters. And his Gauntlet could protect someone from any of Cronal's monstrosities.
And I'm not saying Kressh wouldn't beat Cronal. I'm just saying if you're hinging your entire placement of Kressh based on the comment from the DSSB, any number of obscure dark side adepts could potentially qualify given their penchant for Sith alchemy.
No matter how you slice it, Maul's accolades are better.