Darth Vader vs. Exar Kun

Myth's debunked argument which at best states Sedriss attacked but was obliterated

Tempest didn't debunk anything, he ignored specific wording that states Exar Kun resurrected his ship in the same way Nihilus did.

They're trainees as much as TPM Kenobi was, in that they get knighthoods the night after. 😂

Aleema got one-shotted by her own energy and Ulic, Kun's inferior, was 'far more powerful' than her. Kun being Ulic's far superior is cemented by the fact he is canonically confirmed to be 'far more powerful' than any other Jedi, meaning both himself and Ulic are relevant to the accolade.

Like they literally dueled and stalemated before Kun's fighting style adapted ancient Sith combat techniques from the Dark Holocron and became 'virtually unstoppable'. As if that's even remotely a failure on Kun's part.

Ood needed an extremely powerful Force nexus to stop Kun. 😂

Originally posted by AncientPower
So in other words, the only argument the Vader wankers have left is to claim everybody in JA is totally shit and lowball as hard as humanly possible? Yeh, concession accepted. lmfao.

It's not that unreasonable to claim that the trainees in Luke's academy aren't top tier Jedi. By that point, only Kyp is likely even above Sirak.

The only feat you've managed to convince me is potentially Vader+ tier is his defeat of Luke. I don't know why you're focusing on his beating trainees.

And to be clear, I put Exar Kun slightly above TFU Vader. I just am not convinced that he can beat Vader in his prime, and I don't think harping on about trainees getting choked accomplished that.

Originally posted by SunRazer
For what it's worth, Kun's still more powerful than Sith who were far more powerful than Sith who can generate solar flares and prolong their lives for six centuries, and far more powerful than Jedi who could trap the entire nexus of Ambria in a lake.

Oh come on Nova, it's not like those feats are all done under their power and in a combative scenario.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
Oh come on Nova, it's not like those feats are all done under their power and in a combative scenario.

I'm talking about raw power. In a similar sense to Anakin Skywalker 🙂

Naga still didn't do that on his raw power.

According to The New Essential Chronology, he did. We're assuming amulets are standard equipment, of course.

Quote? Why did he even need his meditation sphere then?

Also, this has passed Ragnos temple purge. 🙂

He didn't do it in his Meditation Sphere? He did it in the Corsair.

Naga Sadow took his most faithful followers and made a second getaway in his damaged flagship, sacrificing the rest of his forces. Republic ships again pursued him, but Sadow made one last sorcerous gambit. He flew his warship between a tight binary star, the Denarii Nova, and used Sith powers to manipulate solar flares that destroyed the Republic ships in his wake.

-- The New Essential Chronology

Which is a noticeable contrast to sources noting that he activated a superweapon in order to obliterate Primus Goluud.

Although one might argue that he was merely using Sith powers to operate said superweapon. *shrug*

What does "Sith powers" mean?

And isn't the new essential chronology in-universe? In either case, it also verifies Sidious's status as the most powerful sith lord of all time, so we would reasonably have to accept that as well (which I know you do).

----------------------------------

So the thing here is, I don't think anyone has given us clearly demonstrated feats that put Exar Kun on Vader's level in raw power or telekinesis. Given that Vader still has Sidious-rivaling potential and has had time to reach it, his superior feats fit "holistic intent", so to speak. Your best bets otherwise are to better argue for his lifting of the Corsair, and his TP'ing of technicians. Nor does Kun seem to have an advantage in close quarters, given that they're both incredible duelists, but Vader/Anakin's accolades seem more impressive in terms of the broadness of their comparison, and Vader likely has more raw power. So Kun's best shot is with sorcery, but Vader is hardly unfamiliar with that, and so I doubt that it can really tip the scales.

My primary reservation comes from Kun's defeat of Luke, but it does seem like that victory comes from a combination of factors like Luke's ignorance of sorcery, his inability to fight back against a specter of Kun he didn't know existed, Kun blindsiding him, Luke generally jobbing, etc.

Originally posted by The Ellimist
What does "Sith powers" mean?

Powers derived from Sith teachings and the dark side?

And isn't the new essential chronology in-universe? In either case, it also verifies Sidious's status as the most powerful sith lord of all time, so we would reasonably have to accept that as well (which I know you do).

I don't see how that changes anything. Besides, the comic clearly depicts Sadow drawing power into himself as opposed to the ship, so again, what happened with the Denarii Nova isn't the same as what happened with Primus Goluud.

So the thing here is, I don't think anyone has given us clearly demonstrated feats that put Exar Kun on Vader's level in raw power or telekinesis. Given that Vader still has Sidious-rivaling potential and has had time to reach it, his superior feats fit "holistic intent", so to speak. Your best bets otherwise are to better argue for his lifting of the Corsair, and his TP'ing of technicians.

Not all characters are environmentally destructive like Vader is. But indeed, the Corsair showing and his TP'ing of the technicians are indeed showings that support him being on Vader's level, if we take them at face value.

Nor does Kun seem to have an advantage in close quarters, given that they're both incredible duelists, but Vader/Anakin's accolades seem more impressive in terms of the broadness of their comparison, and Vader likely has more raw power. So Kun's best shot is with sorcery, but Vader is hardly unfamiliar with that, and so I doubt that it can really tip the scales.

Apart from his Jedi killer accolade, I don't believe Vader has much of an edge. Kun's sheer speed, coupled with his twin blades, could also prove troublesome.

My primary reservation comes from Kun's defeat of Luke, but it does seem like that victory comes from a combination of factors like Luke's ignorance of sorcery, his inability to fight back against a specter of Kun he didn't know existed, Kun blindsiding him, Luke generally jobbing, etc.

I don't think it's anything about jobbing. Mostly the raw power of Kun + Kyp and Luke's inability to defend against Sorcery.

Against the full might of Kyp Durron and the forbidden weapons of the long-dead spirit of Exar Kun, even a Jedi Master such as Luke Skywalker could not prevail.

-- Jedi Academy: Dark Apprentice

Vader. He is 80 percent of ROTJ Palpatines power and he is the pinnacle of the RO2 Sith lineage which Bane is the weakest of and Bane is said to be greater than any Sith before his time.

Stop talking about Vader being 80% of Sidious' power. That means nothing. Lucas also compares Vader more to Dooku or Maul than Sidious. Vader being closer to Maul than Sidious paints a better picture than "80%", which is completely ambiguous since we're given percentages for nobody else except full potential Anakin, who we knew would wipe the floor with Sidious anyway.